First Electric Aircraft in Oz
You can fly with only one battery but the second battery must be installed into the aircraft because 50 kg in the nose or in the tail is quite a lot of weight which you would pull out and need to replace. Intentionally, the aircraft has no space behind the seats were baggage like our other models. This is because the aircraft has been designed from the start as a training aircraft that will not leave the main airport location in normal operations. This aircraft is not a touring aircraft, it is not a cross-country aircraft it is designed for circuit training and for this reason does not need to carry any baggage.
I was actually thinking of training.
If the instructor were say 95kg, that would mean his student/s will need to be light.
If one of the 53kg batteries could be removed and some ballast be used for C of G reasons, could we up the useful load weight by carrying a heavier student.
If the instructor were say 95kg, that would mean his student/s will need to be light.
If one of the 53kg batteries could be removed and some ballast be used for C of G reasons, could we up the useful load weight by carrying a heavier student.
We will probably up the MTOW to 585 kgs in line with some of our other models in AU which fly at the same weights, that will give you another 35 kgs to play with.
The exact same airframe can fly heavier maximum takeoff weight but we are limited by what we have been able to validate in testing. All of our testing has been at maximum takeoff weight 550 kg and up to around 35°C (at the factory in Europe) this is why we have the limitation at the moment of 550 kg and a maximum ambient temperature of 40°C. As we prove that the motor/battery/controller system is not being overstressed (getting too hot) in our temperatures then it is easy to lift the maximum takeoff weight to 585 kg.
It is all about only giving certification and approvals for things that we have actually validated as a factory for each particular airframe model that has been produced.
This is the responsible way to move forward with a new aircraft and propulsion system combination. As we get feedback from different markets like Australia, the USA (which are at the moment struggling with colder temperatures) Dubai, Switzerland and so on we can then increase the envelope.
The exact same airframe can fly heavier maximum takeoff weight but we are limited by what we have been able to validate in testing. All of our testing has been at maximum takeoff weight 550 kg and up to around 35°C (at the factory in Europe) this is why we have the limitation at the moment of 550 kg and a maximum ambient temperature of 40°C. As we prove that the motor/battery/controller system is not being overstressed (getting too hot) in our temperatures then it is easy to lift the maximum takeoff weight to 585 kg.
It is all about only giving certification and approvals for things that we have actually validated as a factory for each particular airframe model that has been produced.
This is the responsible way to move forward with a new aircraft and propulsion system combination. As we get feedback from different markets like Australia, the USA (which are at the moment struggling with colder temperatures) Dubai, Switzerland and so on we can then increase the envelope.
2 questions.
When the engine is removed for overhaul and refitted after overhaul - How is if certified for by an Australian LAME ?
Other engines in Australia require that the engine log book have the engine removal and installations have entries made in them and this is signed by an engine licenced person.
What are the prop strike maintenance requirements?
When the engine is removed for overhaul and refitted after overhaul - How is if certified for by an Australian LAME ?
Other engines in Australia require that the engine log book have the engine removal and installations have entries made in them and this is signed by an engine licenced person.
What are the prop strike maintenance requirements?
It doesn't get certified by an Australian LAME, the motor comes back with all of the certification paperwork from the manufacturer. It then requires reinstallation into the aircraft using the supplied instructions. Refitting the motor takes about 30 minutes. There are four bolts holding the motor to the engine mount and there are three wires with lugs which must be connected to the motor. Then a logbook entry is made and the aircraft returned to service.
Good question about prop strike, something I have not thought about but I will check and come back to you. I would say the motor needs to be removed and go back for new bearings etc. and of course a new prop. All of the propellers we use are hollow carbon fibre in most of our aircraft models so they tend to explode if they hit something rather than do additional damage. I'm not aware of any aircraft that has had a propeller strike that has ever done a gearbox or bent a crankshaft
Good question about prop strike, something I have not thought about but I will check and come back to you. I would say the motor needs to be removed and go back for new bearings etc. and of course a new prop. All of the propellers we use are hollow carbon fibre in most of our aircraft models so they tend to explode if they hit something rather than do additional damage. I'm not aware of any aircraft that has had a propeller strike that has ever done a gearbox or bent a crankshaft
Last edited by mcoates; 8th Jan 2018 at 05:55.
Yep got that - same as fitting an overhauled piston engine.
But fitting the motor (engine) IAW the supplied instructions that I expect include ground runs, require certification by an Australian LAME.
I can not see CASA classing a power plant as an airframe item (other than the ones who do!)
But fitting the motor (engine) IAW the supplied instructions that I expect include ground runs, require certification by an Australian LAME.
I can not see CASA classing a power plant as an airframe item (other than the ones who do!)
Yep got that - same as fitting an overhauled piston engine.
But fitting the motor (engine) IAW the supplied instructions that I expect include ground runs, require certification by an Australian LAME.
I can not see CASA classing a power plant as an airframe item (other than the ones who do!)
But fitting the motor (engine) IAW the supplied instructions that I expect include ground runs, require certification by an Australian LAME.
I can not see CASA classing a power plant as an airframe item (other than the ones who do!)
RAAus can be suspended/removed by CAsA is my understanding, as it is like a outsource section or regulator.
RAAus have had a few issues and been looked at by CAsA - as a commercial operator of a fleet of aircraft you would want all options available. A simple regulation change could exclude flight training from being done in anything other than say charter cat aircraft. Skydiving commercial ops comes to mind here where it was fine to do in private cat aircraft, now it is charter cat.
I am certain that the CAsA action taken toward Jabiru engines included RAAus aircraft in their flying restrictions, not just the VH registered ones.
RAAus have had a few issues and been looked at by CAsA - as a commercial operator of a fleet of aircraft you would want all options available. A simple regulation change could exclude flight training from being done in anything other than say charter cat aircraft. Skydiving commercial ops comes to mind here where it was fine to do in private cat aircraft, now it is charter cat.
I am certain that the CAsA action taken toward Jabiru engines included RAAus aircraft in their flying restrictions, not just the VH registered ones.
RAAus can be suspended/removed by CAsA is my understanding, as it is like a outsource section or regulator.
RAAus have had a few issues and been looked at by CAsA - as a commercial operator of a fleet of aircraft you would want all options available. A simple regulation change could exclude flight training from being done in anything other than say charter cat aircraft. Skydiving commercial ops comes to mind here where it was fine to do in private cat aircraft, now it is charter cat.
I am certain that the CAsA action taken toward Jabiru engines included RAAus aircraft in their flying restrictions, not just the VH registered ones.
RAAus have had a few issues and been looked at by CAsA - as a commercial operator of a fleet of aircraft you would want all options available. A simple regulation change could exclude flight training from being done in anything other than say charter cat aircraft. Skydiving commercial ops comes to mind here where it was fine to do in private cat aircraft, now it is charter cat.
I am certain that the CAsA action taken toward Jabiru engines included RAAus aircraft in their flying restrictions, not just the VH registered ones.
You sure about charter cat for skydive? As far as I’m aware their ops are private, not even air work let alone charter. Some pretty clapped out looking 206s and 182s flying around.
Electric aircraft... the way of the future.!! There is a similar machine in the States.
Anything that will bring the cost of basic training way down is a blessing for the cash strapped student.
While on the subject...Q for Mr Smith...
Hey Dick,Any further on yr great idea for a Race / rally with electric a/c to commemorate the 100th Anniversary of the first flight UK to Australia. ?
November 2019 is just around the corner ...!
Anything that will bring the cost of basic training way down is a blessing for the cash strapped student.
While on the subject...Q for Mr Smith...
Hey Dick,Any further on yr great idea for a Race / rally with electric a/c to commemorate the 100th Anniversary of the first flight UK to Australia. ?
November 2019 is just around the corner ...!
Yes you’re right, CASA have the last say, but will leave a RAAus alone unless they have good reason.
You sure about charter cat for skydive? As far as I’m aware their ops are private, not even air work let alone charter. Some pretty clapped out looking 206s and 182s flying around.
You sure about charter cat for skydive? As far as I’m aware their ops are private, not even air work let alone charter. Some pretty clapped out looking 206s and 182s flying around.
I am positive the clapped 206 I had to upgrade from private to charter was not for fun. I believe it was an agreement reached between the skydive federation and CAsA .
But I am certain as of today skydive commercial ops are to only be in charter + category aircraft.
Electric aircraft... the way of the future.!! There is a similar machine in the States.
Anything that will bring the cost of basic training way down is a blessing for the cash strapped student.
While on the subject...Q for Mr Smith...
Hey Dick,Any further on yr great idea for a Race / rally with electric a/c to commemorate the 100th Anniversary of the first flight UK to Australia. ?
November 2019 is just around the corner ...!
Anything that will bring the cost of basic training way down is a blessing for the cash strapped student.
While on the subject...Q for Mr Smith...
Hey Dick,Any further on yr great idea for a Race / rally with electric a/c to commemorate the 100th Anniversary of the first flight UK to Australia. ?
November 2019 is just around the corner ...!
Dick from memory pulled his pledge of $1,000,000 for the event because the government would not match it.
Big shame about that.
Can the equivalent of “run up” engine checks be done on an apron whilst still plugged in to mains power? 
If waiting on an apron or taxiway for clearance is the prop stationary?
Is there a rule of thumb where x hours of endurance in a ICE aircraft equals Y hours in a electric aircraft?
An equation that factors in low energy use in startup, taxi hold and descent?
If parked into wind for lunch how much charging could be achieved by a windmilling prop?
In respect to safety, should there be a more obvious exterior visual indication than a flashing red light, visible by anyone standing near the prop that the aircraft is “on” and the prop could move instantly? Or perhaps a warning sound that the aircraft is “on”
One thinks of the instant enormous torque of electric cars.....
With saftey in mind, and if not already in practice, could the drive system have a “soft startup” where the prop moves very slowly for a few seconds on startup?
As a former volunteer fireman I was surprised that there is not a common location or piece of hardware for the “off” switch or fuse, in electric cars.
Some are under the passenger seat!, a problem if the seat is occupied by an injured passenger! Others need panels to be unscrewed.
The threat is that the drive chain is
a) energised without any obvious indication
B) can be inadvertently energised during extraction of occupants.
Will there be an industry standard for location or identification of the fuse in GA aircraft?
Interesting video of a recent tesla crash where the vehicle was hung up in a ditch yet the rear wheels are spinning whilst firemen work with gutters to extract the occupants.
No doubt, it’s still safer than working around a tank of gas
Mjb
If waiting on an apron or taxiway for clearance is the prop stationary?
Is there a rule of thumb where x hours of endurance in a ICE aircraft equals Y hours in a electric aircraft?
An equation that factors in low energy use in startup, taxi hold and descent?
If parked into wind for lunch how much charging could be achieved by a windmilling prop?
In respect to safety, should there be a more obvious exterior visual indication than a flashing red light, visible by anyone standing near the prop that the aircraft is “on” and the prop could move instantly? Or perhaps a warning sound that the aircraft is “on”
One thinks of the instant enormous torque of electric cars.....
With saftey in mind, and if not already in practice, could the drive system have a “soft startup” where the prop moves very slowly for a few seconds on startup?
As a former volunteer fireman I was surprised that there is not a common location or piece of hardware for the “off” switch or fuse, in electric cars.
Some are under the passenger seat!, a problem if the seat is occupied by an injured passenger! Others need panels to be unscrewed.
The threat is that the drive chain is
a) energised without any obvious indication
B) can be inadvertently energised during extraction of occupants.
Will there be an industry standard for location or identification of the fuse in GA aircraft?
Interesting video of a recent tesla crash where the vehicle was hung up in a ditch yet the rear wheels are spinning whilst firemen work with gutters to extract the occupants.
No doubt, it’s still safer than working around a tank of gas
Mjb
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What are you talking about here? A bunch of aussies discussing the arrival of the *first* electric aircraft here?
Can the equivalent of “run up” engine checks be done on an apron whilst still plugged in to mains power? there are no runup checks required, think of the motor just like a lightbulb. It is either on or off
If waiting on an apron or taxiway for clearance is the prop stationary? Yes
Is there a rule of thumb where x hours of endurance in a ICE aircraft equals Y hours in a electric aircraft? not that I am aware of
An equation that factors in low energy use in startup, taxi hold and descent?
If parked into wind for lunch how much charging could be achieved by a windmilling prop? you would need about 30 kn of headwind to be able to generate power about 60 kn will give you around 6 kW
In respect to safety, should there be a more obvious exterior visual indication than a flashing red light, visible by anyone standing near the prop that the aircraft is “on” and the prop could move instantly? Or perhaps a warning sound that the aircraft is “on” the same as in a normal aircraft, the engine should not be operating if there are people around the aircraft. If you are within about 3 m of the aircraft you can hear the cooling fans but there is no other indication from the outside
One thinks of the instant enormous torque of electric cars..... that's why this gets up and goes so quickly, lots of torque on takeoff
With saftey in mind, and if not already in practice, could the drive system have a “soft startup” where the prop moves very slowly for a few seconds on startup? it probably could be but what would happen in the case of a go around where you are coming into land at zero throttle and then need to put in a lot of throttle to go around. Would you want it to spend a few seconds turning slowly before engaging or power
As a former volunteer fireman I was surprised that there is not a common location or piece of hardware for the “off” switch or fuse, in electric cars.
Some are under the passenger seat!, a problem if the seat is occupied by an injured passenger! Others need panels to be unscrewed.
The threat is that the drive chain is
a) energised without any obvious indication
B) can be inadvertently energised during extraction of occupants. there are four switches on the instrument panel, one disengages the throttle, the second disengages the electric motor, the third for avionics and the fourth for master. You would only need to turn off the master switch and everything shuts down
Will there be an industry standard for location or identification of the fuse in GA aircraft? industry standards are developed between the manufacturers normally. Pipistrel was heavily involved in writing the ASTM standards because we are the leader in electric aircraft technology. We are hoping that others will follow suit using our charging technologies so you don't need three different chargers at each airport to suit three different manufacturers.... Because we are supplying the technology to a lot of other manufacturers who are using our motors, controllers etc we will probably end up with a charging standard by default
Interesting video of a recent tesla crash where the vehicle was hung up in a ditch yet the rear wheels are spinning whilst firemen work with gutters to extract the occupants.
No doubt, it’s still safer than working around a tank of gas
there are no runup checks required, think of the motor just like a lightbulb. It is either on or off If waiting on an apron or taxiway for clearance is the prop stationary? Yes
Is there a rule of thumb where x hours of endurance in a ICE aircraft equals Y hours in a electric aircraft? not that I am aware of
An equation that factors in low energy use in startup, taxi hold and descent?
If parked into wind for lunch how much charging could be achieved by a windmilling prop?
you would need about 30 kn of headwind to be able to generate power about 60 kn will give you around 6 kW In respect to safety, should there be a more obvious exterior visual indication than a flashing red light, visible by anyone standing near the prop that the aircraft is “on” and the prop could move instantly? Or perhaps a warning sound that the aircraft is “on” the same as in a normal aircraft, the engine should not be operating if there are people around the aircraft. If you are within about 3 m of the aircraft you can hear the cooling fans but there is no other indication from the outside
One thinks of the instant enormous torque of electric cars..... that's why this gets up and goes so quickly, lots of torque on takeoff
With saftey in mind, and if not already in practice, could the drive system have a “soft startup” where the prop moves very slowly for a few seconds on startup? it probably could be but what would happen in the case of a go around where you are coming into land at zero throttle and then need to put in a lot of throttle to go around. Would you want it to spend a few seconds turning slowly before engaging or power
As a former volunteer fireman I was surprised that there is not a common location or piece of hardware for the “off” switch or fuse, in electric cars.
Some are under the passenger seat!, a problem if the seat is occupied by an injured passenger! Others need panels to be unscrewed.
The threat is that the drive chain is
a) energised without any obvious indication
B) can be inadvertently energised during extraction of occupants. there are four switches on the instrument panel, one disengages the throttle, the second disengages the electric motor, the third for avionics and the fourth for master. You would only need to turn off the master switch and everything shuts down
Will there be an industry standard for location or identification of the fuse in GA aircraft? industry standards are developed between the manufacturers normally. Pipistrel was heavily involved in writing the ASTM standards because we are the leader in electric aircraft technology. We are hoping that others will follow suit using our charging technologies so you don't need three different chargers at each airport to suit three different manufacturers.... Because we are supplying the technology to a lot of other manufacturers who are using our motors, controllers etc we will probably end up with a charging standard by default
Interesting video of a recent tesla crash where the vehicle was hung up in a ditch yet the rear wheels are spinning whilst firemen work with gutters to extract the occupants.
No doubt, it’s still safer than working around a tank of gas