DHC Beaver down in Hawkesbury
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Hi Weheka
Yes I flew with the Kiwi mod, witch is a great idea.
My information was the mod was partly because of some accidents caused
by flap selector settings, and to make flying the aircraft more simple.
Hi Megan
Yes I think a 180 turn would be possible in area with full power and lots of flap, and loss of altitude to keep up speed. But going in the bay without
checking it out empty and with altitude could be silly.
Yes I flew with the Kiwi mod, witch is a great idea.
My information was the mod was partly because of some accidents caused
by flap selector settings, and to make flying the aircraft more simple.
Hi Megan
Yes I think a 180 turn would be possible in area with full power and lots of flap, and loss of altitude to keep up speed. But going in the bay without
checking it out empty and with altitude could be silly.
Going by the TV coverage after the accident, the area was chockers with anchored craft (NYE), so finding clear water plus approach path could have been a big ask.
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Hi George,
Not sure if you have seen it, but NZ Ag Beavers had a mod on the flap handle designed so if you ever had to pump flaps in a hurry, they went down. It was a simple lever on the flap handle just like a brake lever on a bike, flaps only came up if you squeezed the lever. Must have been a few incidents on Ag as you can imagine with having flap selector in wrong position. Think it was a Fieldair mod. Two Beavers I have been connected with and others I have seen all had the mod, even for civil use.
A google search reveals a company called Stolairus Aviation in the US seems to have copied the idea and have STCd it in the States, Canada pending.
Not sure if you have seen it, but NZ Ag Beavers had a mod on the flap handle designed so if you ever had to pump flaps in a hurry, they went down. It was a simple lever on the flap handle just like a brake lever on a bike, flaps only came up if you squeezed the lever. Must have been a few incidents on Ag as you can imagine with having flap selector in wrong position. Think it was a Fieldair mod. Two Beavers I have been connected with and others I have seen all had the mod, even for civil use.
A google search reveals a company called Stolairus Aviation in the US seems to have copied the idea and have STCd it in the States, Canada pending.
.
Was not a NZ. The mod was done and designed by airag at bankstown in the late 70s.
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So our living aviation treasure, Connedrod, got it wrong? Next thing you’ll be telling us that the Kiwis invented pavlova...
Hi Connedrod,
Speaking to a very experienced Ag pilot here and he told me the mod began to be installed in Beavers here after Harry Mangham was killed flying ZK-CGS at Tinui in 1965. Collided with fence on take off due to flap selector inadvertently left in wrong position, was distracted when farmer offered him a cup of tea between loads.
So I stick with it being a Fielder NZ mod from mid 60s.
Apparently Airwork NZ also had one that involved a twist grip on the flap handle which was also a good mod.
Speaking to a very experienced Ag pilot here and he told me the mod began to be installed in Beavers here after Harry Mangham was killed flying ZK-CGS at Tinui in 1965. Collided with fence on take off due to flap selector inadvertently left in wrong position, was distracted when farmer offered him a cup of tea between loads.
So I stick with it being a Fielder NZ mod from mid 60s.
Apparently Airwork NZ also had one that involved a twist grip on the flap handle which was also a good mod.
Well according to a very experienced Baker I was talking to, (and I'm not making this up), apparently it was a Kiwi woman who invented the Pavlova, it all came about by accident when she was told to "cook that man some 
eggs!!".
eggs!!".
Sadly statistic show that experience has NO influence on the stats of pilots losing control due to turning leading to stall and spin accident.
just as may high time "experienced" pilots have lost their lives in this scenario as have low time pilots.
edit, i am not saying this was the cause, but statistics in general show that experience means nothing when it comes to loss of control incidents in aircraft.
just as may high time "experienced" pilots have lost their lives in this scenario as have low time pilots.
edit, i am not saying this was the cause, but statistics in general show that experience means nothing when it comes to loss of control incidents in aircraft.
There are many ways to quantify "experience". Suffice to say 10,000 hours staring out the window of glass cockpit airliner doesn't really count for much.
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A family from the UK who were killed in a seaplane crash near Sydney died from a combination of multiple injuries and drowning, an inquest heard.
Richard Cousins, 58, sons, Edward, 23 and William, 25, as well as Emma Bowden and her daughter Heather, 11, died when the plane crashed into a river.
At Reading Coroner's Court, senior coroner Peter Bedford said the crash on New Year's Eve was a "tragic incident". A full inquest has been suspended pending an investigation in Australia. Mr Cousins, chief executive of Compass Group - one of the world's largest catering companies - was travelling back to Sydney with his family reportedly from an exclusive waterfront restaurant in Jerusalem Bay.
The crash, which also killed Sydney-based pilot Gareth Morgan, 44, happened in Hawkesbury River, near the suburb of Cowan. Australian authorities recovered most of the wreckage of the plane in January. The coroner adjourned the inquests pending the investigation by New South Wales police.
Mr Bedford added he was taking on jurisdiction of the inquest because Mr Cousins' brother, and two of his children, now live in Bracknell, Berkshire.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) investigators have said they will release a preliminary report into the crash later this month.
Officials also said a crash involving the same plane in 1996 would form part of their wide-ranging investigation.
Richard Cousins, 58, sons, Edward, 23 and William, 25, as well as Emma Bowden and her daughter Heather, 11, died when the plane crashed into a river.
At Reading Coroner's Court, senior coroner Peter Bedford said the crash on New Year's Eve was a "tragic incident". A full inquest has been suspended pending an investigation in Australia. Mr Cousins, chief executive of Compass Group - one of the world's largest catering companies - was travelling back to Sydney with his family reportedly from an exclusive waterfront restaurant in Jerusalem Bay.
The crash, which also killed Sydney-based pilot Gareth Morgan, 44, happened in Hawkesbury River, near the suburb of Cowan. Australian authorities recovered most of the wreckage of the plane in January. The coroner adjourned the inquests pending the investigation by New South Wales police.
Mr Bedford added he was taking on jurisdiction of the inquest because Mr Cousins' brother, and two of his children, now live in Bracknell, Berkshire.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) investigators have said they will release a preliminary report into the crash later this month.
Officials also said a crash involving the same plane in 1996 would form part of their wide-ranging investigation.
A family from the UK who were killed in a seaplane crash near Sydney died from a combination of multiple injuries and drowning, an inquest heard.
Richard Cousins, 58, sons, Edward, 23 and William, 25, as well as Emma Bowden and her daughter Heather, 11, died when the plane crashed into a river.
At Reading Coroner's Court, senior coroner Peter Bedford said the crash on New Year's Eve was a "tragic incident". A full inquest has been suspended pending an investigation in Australia. Mr Cousins, chief executive of Compass Group - one of the world's largest catering companies - was travelling back to Sydney with his family reportedly from an exclusive waterfront restaurant in Jerusalem Bay.
The crash, which also killed Sydney-based pilot Gareth Morgan, 44, happened in Hawkesbury River, near the suburb of Cowan. Australian authorities recovered most of the wreckage of the plane in January. The coroner adjourned the inquests pending the investigation by New South Wales police.
Mr Bedford added he was taking on jurisdiction of the inquest because Mr Cousins' brother, and two of his children, now live in Bracknell, Berkshire.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) investigators have said they will release a preliminary report into the crash later this month.
Officials also said a crash involving the same plane in 1996 would form part of their wide-ranging investigation.
Richard Cousins, 58, sons, Edward, 23 and William, 25, as well as Emma Bowden and her daughter Heather, 11, died when the plane crashed into a river.
At Reading Coroner's Court, senior coroner Peter Bedford said the crash on New Year's Eve was a "tragic incident". A full inquest has been suspended pending an investigation in Australia. Mr Cousins, chief executive of Compass Group - one of the world's largest catering companies - was travelling back to Sydney with his family reportedly from an exclusive waterfront restaurant in Jerusalem Bay.
The crash, which also killed Sydney-based pilot Gareth Morgan, 44, happened in Hawkesbury River, near the suburb of Cowan. Australian authorities recovered most of the wreckage of the plane in January. The coroner adjourned the inquests pending the investigation by New South Wales police.
Mr Bedford added he was taking on jurisdiction of the inquest because Mr Cousins' brother, and two of his children, now live in Bracknell, Berkshire.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) investigators have said they will release a preliminary report into the crash later this month.
Officials also said a crash involving the same plane in 1996 would form part of their wide-ranging investigation.
Following on from the post above..
Senior coroner Peter Bedford reportedly told the inquest Mr Cousins' fiancee, Emma Bowden, died of head injuries and drowning.
Her daughter, Heather, also died from head injuries and drowning.Mr Cousins' eldest son William died from head and facial injuries while his youngest son, Edward, drowned.
So it would appear that all except the son Edward were probably unconscious as soon as they hit the water. Alas poor Edward appears to have remained conscious due to lack of head injuries which would be beyond ghastly.. rip..
Senior coroner Peter Bedford reportedly told the inquest Mr Cousins' fiancee, Emma Bowden, died of head injuries and drowning.
Her daughter, Heather, also died from head injuries and drowning.Mr Cousins' eldest son William died from head and facial injuries while his youngest son, Edward, drowned.
So it would appear that all except the son Edward were probably unconscious as soon as they hit the water. Alas poor Edward appears to have remained conscious due to lack of head injuries which would be beyond ghastly.. rip..
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but an ATSB report here echos those same sentiments.
https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/417179...-023_final.pdf
extracts
General Aviation pilots
The propensity for pilots of different experience levels to be involved in accidents has been
studied with a number of different pilot cohorts. In general aviation, a review of 72 accidents which
occurred in degraded visibility found no effect of total flight hours, nor years of experience,
The propensity for pilots of different experience levels to be involved in accidents has been
studied with a number of different pilot cohorts. In general aviation, a review of 72 accidents which
occurred in degraded visibility found no effect of total flight hours, nor years of experience,
Original Articles
The Incidence of Incidents: A Nationwide Study of Flight Experience and Exposure to Accidents and..
David O'Hare & David Chalmers
Pages 1-18 | Published online: 13 Nov 2009
Download citation https://doi.org/10.1207/s15327108ijap0901_1
Citations Metrics Reprints & Permissions Get access
Abstract
Very little is known about the actual flying activity patterns of pilots in civil aviation, particularly those in the recreational and general aviation sectors. Accurate information about hours flown is required to correctly calculate accident rates and to determine the risk factors for involvement in aviation accidents. Little information currently exists about involvement in incidents (events that have the potential to result in an accident). This study involved 2 nationwide surveys mailed to approximately 8,500 active pilots in New Zealand. The 1st survey asked respondents to report recorded logbook flight-time entries to determine the actual hours flown in various aircraft and operational categories. When combined with the official accident data, the information about flight activity showed substantial differences in comparative accident rates between different categories of aircraft. These data also showed that there were no sex differences in accident involvement after controlling for exposure (flight-activity). A 2nd survey requested information about involvement in accidents and incidents. The results of the 2nd survey showed that encounters with potentially hazardous events, such as running low on fuel, were fairly common and that around a quarter of respondents had been involved in an aircraft accident or incident in the previous 3 years. Implications of the results for safety interventions are discussed.
The Incidence of Incidents: A Nationwide Study of Flight Experience and Exposure to Accidents and..
David O'Hare & David Chalmers
Pages 1-18 | Published online: 13 Nov 2009
Download citation https://doi.org/10.1207/s15327108ijap0901_1
Citations Metrics Reprints & Permissions Get access
Abstract
Very little is known about the actual flying activity patterns of pilots in civil aviation, particularly those in the recreational and general aviation sectors. Accurate information about hours flown is required to correctly calculate accident rates and to determine the risk factors for involvement in aviation accidents. Little information currently exists about involvement in incidents (events that have the potential to result in an accident). This study involved 2 nationwide surveys mailed to approximately 8,500 active pilots in New Zealand. The 1st survey asked respondents to report recorded logbook flight-time entries to determine the actual hours flown in various aircraft and operational categories. When combined with the official accident data, the information about flight activity showed substantial differences in comparative accident rates between different categories of aircraft. These data also showed that there were no sex differences in accident involvement after controlling for exposure (flight-activity). A 2nd survey requested information about involvement in accidents and incidents. The results of the 2nd survey showed that encounters with potentially hazardous events, such as running low on fuel, were fairly common and that around a quarter of respondents had been involved in an aircraft accident or incident in the previous 3 years. Implications of the results for safety interventions are discussed.
Impact of gender, age and experience of pilots on general aviation accidents
Author links open overlay panelMassoudBazarganVitaly S.Guzhva
Show more
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.aap.2010.11.023Get rights and content
Abstract
General aviation (GA) accounts for more than 82% of all air transport-related accidents and air transport-related fatalities in the U.S. In this study, we conduct a series of statistical analyses to investigate the significance of a pilot's gender, age and experience in influencing the risk for pilot errors and fatalities in GA accidents. There is no evidence from the Chi-square tests and logistic regression models that support the likelihood of an accident caused by pilot error to be related to pilot gender. However, evidence is found that male pilots, those older than 60 years of age, and with more experience, are more likely to be involved in a fatal accident.
Author links open overlay panelMassoudBazarganVitaly S.Guzhva
Show more
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.aap.2010.11.023Get rights and content
Abstract
General aviation (GA) accounts for more than 82% of all air transport-related accidents and air transport-related fatalities in the U.S. In this study, we conduct a series of statistical analyses to investigate the significance of a pilot's gender, age and experience in influencing the risk for pilot errors and fatalities in GA accidents. There is no evidence from the Chi-square tests and logistic regression models that support the likelihood of an accident caused by pilot error to be related to pilot gender. However, evidence is found that male pilots, those older than 60 years of age, and with more experience, are more likely to be involved in a fatal accident.
Last edited by Ultralights; 17th Feb 2018 at 07:04.