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DHC Beaver down in Hawkesbury

Old 12th Jan 2018, 09:47
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
With respect to the flight manual question, an operator's CP has kindly provided the following,
What max TOW are they operating to?
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 13:52
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No idea aeromariner, and I'm not about to wear out my welcome.
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 14:51
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The major bird problem at Cottage Point are sea gulls. They identify unused boats and roost upon them.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 12:48
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Apologies if anyone else has mentioned this, but I just read from this point Sydney Seaplanes will be operating all flights 2-pilot. Maybe they have some insight to a pilot incapacitation event?
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 13:12
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
Apologies if anyone else has mentioned this, but I just read from this point Sydney Seaplanes will be operating all flights 2-pilot. Maybe they have some insight to a pilot incapacitation event?
I'd be thinking that this may be a rather wise, commercial decision by Sydney Seaplanes. (They intend to only fly their Caravan rather than their other Beaver).
The Cottage Point Inn restaurant may also possibly go out of business without the aerial tourism traffic?
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 19:51
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Originally Posted by gerry111 View Post
I'd be thinking that this may be a rather wise, commercial decision by Sydney Seaplanes. (They intend to only fly their Caravan rather than their other Beaver).
The Cottage Point Inn restaurant may also possibly go out of business without the aerial tourism traffic?
I've been there. They certainty didn't need the air traffic to keep the business afloat from my observations at the time.

Two pilots does sound sensible snd would give good piece of mind to passengers and regulators but not still without its' dangers.
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Old 17th Jan 2018, 01:50
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Paper here says the company is grounding its Beavers until a preliminary report as to cause is released. The two pilot ops on the 208 is only for an interim period. So says the company via Mr. Shaw.
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Old 17th Jan 2018, 07:23
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Not sure that two pilots would have saved the situation if what opinion here thinks happened, actually happened. We await the report.


It's good PR to do it. TV mentioned resumption of flying in the caravan today but did not mention two pilots.
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Old 17th Jan 2018, 12:30
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Originally Posted by StickWithTheTruth View Post
I've been there. They certainty didn't need the air traffic to keep the business afloat from my observations at the time.
That perhaps depends on the time of year? This is their peak period for both the seaplanes and restaurant.

Car parking is always scarce on the very steep road down to Cottage Point. Those who regularly drive to the Inn may be advantaged by taking membership of the Ku-Rin-Gai Motor Yacht Club. For KMYC have a vast, secure carpark there..
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Old 17th Jan 2018, 20:44
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Could it be that the two pilot op is intended to keep pilots gainfully employed while the Beavers are out of service? An employer looking after pilots - that's a good thing right?
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 11:32
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This has been a catastrophe for all involved. There isnít a tourist industry on the Hawkesbury that hasnít been affected. The most innocent commercial victim has been Steve Krug operating his magnificent Beaver out of Palm Beach.

Aaron Shaw, in making a dual pilot decision for his flights is doing his absolute best to mitigate something that appears likely outside anyones control. Sydney Seaplanes would be wearing this cost for a number of reasons - but they will have the full support of everyone on the Hawkesbury from the smallest guesthouse operator to the busiest restaurant. Iím sure everyone hopes that Ďthe marketí supports a genuine and well intended safety initiative.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 12:01
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Originally Posted by FAR CU View Post
Dear Fred . . . . . maybe there should be a PPRuNe system that can deal with posters who reveal their ignorance of the relevant facts, and are patently without credible experience, but launch into print anyway. Initially they should be cautioned. Then. . .. how about - "three strikes and you're out " ? . .. . Darce

p.s. you wouldn't be the Fred that crop-dusted with Ag Cats, by any chance?
Good idea Darce.
Yes, I am the second generation Fred. I still have FPB in the hangar at Wagga.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 12:07
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Originally Posted by Rodney Rotorslap View Post
Could it be that the two pilot op is intended to keep pilots gainfully employed while the Beavers are out of service? An employer looking after pilots - that's a good thing right?

2 pilot ops - or 2 crew?

Seems a band aid and no official change in operation, can be a student pilot in the RHS is my guess.
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Old 30th Jan 2018, 23:43
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Preliminary report is out: https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/577393...reliminary.pdf

DF.
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Old 31st Jan 2018, 00:22
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This is very odd.... and I'm not pilot blaming here.
CAVOK day - tailwind, he enters Jerusalem Bay then makes an 80 degree angle of bank turn and impacts.
Was he flying towards and surrounded by terrain, lacked the climb power due to load to climb over it - tried to make a steep turn to reverse direction and overcooked it?
He's experienced and knows the area well - so don't think so...?
That land around Cottage point etc can't be more than a coupla hundred feet high - and surely even a fully loaded Beaver would have the climb performance to clear that terrain.

Part of statement from Sydney Seaplanes:

Aaron Shaw, CEO of Sydney Seaplanes, said:
“Since the accident, we have done everything possible to assist the ATSB, the NSW Police and CASA to understand how this tragic event occurred.
“Whilst the precise cause of the accident remains unknown, the preliminary report reflects the excellent flying conditions on the day and suggests no evidence of airframe, fuel or engine issues. The Report confirms that the aircraft undertook a periodic inspection as recently as the 6th of November 2017 and was certified fully fit to fly.
“Our maintenance program is conducted to the highest standard possible, going above and beyond both manufacturer and regulatory requirements, to the extent that our Beavers undergo a complete strip, repaint and rebuild every three years.
“The Report also highlights that Gareth Morgan was a highly skilled, experienced and trained pilot who was flying to a location he had flown to hundreds of times before.
“The key question arising from the Report is why the plane crashed approximately half way down Jerusalem Bay, which is surrounded by steep terrain and has no exit. It is not a route we authorise in our Landing & Take Off Area Register and the plane simply should not have been where it was.
“Further, the aircraft is then reported to have entered in to an 80-90 degree bank angle turn. A turn of this nature at low altitude by a pilot with Gareth's skills, experience and intimate knowledge of the location is totally inexplicable.
“We hope the ATSB’s request for further eye witness accounts will shed additional light on these matters,” said Mr Shaw.
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Old 31st Jan 2018, 00:29
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Odd indeed. Why did he enter Jerusalem Bay?
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Old 31st Jan 2018, 01:00
  #237 (permalink)  
 
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Max terrain height 180 metres?
https://www.aussiebushwalking.com/nsw/jerusalem-bay

Around 5100 lbs certified MAUW on the Beaver?
What's it's climb performance like at MAUW?
I've watched them them take off from Rose Bay - very good converters of fuel to noise and extremely shallow climb out angle...
Can any Beaver drivers past or present elaborate?
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Old 31st Jan 2018, 01:21
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CASA/ATSB prelim report just released, all known possible causes ruled out. Aircraft was on climb out, banked to 80-90 degrees right.
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Old 31st Jan 2018, 01:53
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Originally Posted by Jenna Talia View Post
Odd indeed. Why did he enter Jerusalem Bay?
Unfortunately, I think it is likely that we will never know.

PG
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Old 31st Jan 2018, 02:01
  #240 (permalink)  
 
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Jerusalem Bay's only about 200m wide - and rising terrain ahead at Cowan Creek end...
https://www.google.com.au/maps/searc.../data=!3m1!1e3
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