Port Hedland AFIS wind back
Thread Starter
Port Hedland AFIS wind back
Many will remember with the AMATS changes we removed the Aerodrome Flight Information Zones (AFIZ). In those days they were some enormous 15nm radius and everyone had to call in. Talk about a make jobs system!
I note that Port Hedland has been wound back to an Aerodrome Flight Information Service (AFIS) and it looks like it is 20 miles in radius up to 8,000 feet. Does that mean someone flying 19 miles away from Port Hedland at 500 feet AGL and not going anywhere close to the airport, has to call up and give a position report?
I wonder when they will reintroduce flight planning for such aircraft.
Another make jobs system.
This is a rumour network. The rumour is that it costs about $600,000 to operate the Port Hedland AFIS. Is that correct or does anyone have a more accurate figure?
I note that Port Hedland has been wound back to an Aerodrome Flight Information Service (AFIS) and it looks like it is 20 miles in radius up to 8,000 feet. Does that mean someone flying 19 miles away from Port Hedland at 500 feet AGL and not going anywhere close to the airport, has to call up and give a position report?
I wonder when they will reintroduce flight planning for such aircraft.
Another make jobs system.
This is a rumour network. The rumour is that it costs about $600,000 to operate the Port Hedland AFIS. Is that correct or does anyone have a more accurate figure?
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It was 'wound back' from CTAF hey... 
I doubt many people would know or care if there was someone 19 miles away at 500' AGL not going anywhere close to the airport...
I doubt many people would know or care if there was someone 19 miles away at 500' AGL not going anywhere close to the airport...
Thread Starter
No. Half wound back when it was put in. What was wrong with a CTAF with a US style Unicom?
Why is it huge? To catch lots of aircraft to make it look busy?
FAA style class C only goes to 5nm at ground level.
Why is it huge? To catch lots of aircraft to make it look busy?
FAA style class C only goes to 5nm at ground level.
20 miles in radius up to 8,000 feet.
The rumour is that it costs about $600,000 to operate the Port Hedland AFIS
The AFIS was put in - some 4 or 5 years ago - because CASA considered the traffic levels justified it, but were - and I understand still are - not high enough to justify a TWR.
Sounds to me like a cost-effective alternative.
Dick - I believe it was put in as an interim measure when Port Hedland was supposed to become a Tower. The traffic disappeared with the end of the mining boom and the interim AFIS has operated ever since staffed by ATCs from Karratha. The broadcast area is the same size as the Ayers Rock broadcast area.
FAA Class C can be 5nm because it is surrounded by Class E which contains the instrument approaches and missed approaches. Our Class D and C is bigger to do the same job becuase of the lack of Class E.
FAA Class C can be 5nm because it is surrounded by Class E which contains the instrument approaches and missed approaches. Our Class D and C is bigger to do the same job becuase of the lack of Class E.
No. Half wound back when it was put in. What was wrong with a CTAF with a US style Unicom?
What was wrong with a CTAF with a US style Unicom?
the interim AFIS has operated ever since staffed by ATCs from Karratha
YPPD AFIS is the epitome of an uncontrolled aerodrome; short, sharp, concise and to the point traffic info by experienced aviation professionals keeping an eye on weather, and other things. It's a pleasure to operate into YPPD, and it's easy to see how a yank-style unicom (or the fireys, no offence) wouldn't work well.
So where is the AIP information that says it's anything other than an 'ordinary' CTAF?
So where is the AIP information that says it's anything other than an 'ordinary' CTAF?
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So where is the AIP information that says it's anything other than an 'ordinary' CTAF?
Jepp ATC pg. AU-112 'Air Traffic Rules and Services - 8.8 Aerodrome Flight Information Service (AFIS)'
So ERSA FAC says there's an 'AFIS' at YPPD. It has the same frequency as the CTAF. What are the operational rules that make it different from an 'ordinary' CTAF?
I understood that Dick was suggesting that there was some operational difference.
I understood that Dick was suggesting that there was some operational difference.
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You need to also look at:
Jepp ATC pg. AU-112 'Air Traffic Rules and Services - 8.8 Aerodrome Flight Information Service (AFIS)'
3rd Apr 2017 09:32
3rd Apr 2017 09:32
Gobbledegook to me.
I'll approach it a different way: What are the operational rules at an aerodrome with an AFIS that differ from the operational rules at an 'ordinary' CTAF.
I'll approach it a different way: What are the operational rules at an aerodrome with an AFIS that differ from the operational rules at an 'ordinary' CTAF.
Last edited by Lead Balloon; 3rd Apr 2017 at 09:52. Reason: Added "at an aerodrome with"
Please understand I don't fly that much in these hearts of darkness where this kind of weirdness flourishes.
I now see the ridiculousness to which Dick refers.
So the rule is that all aircraft departing, arriving or transiting a 'Broadcast Area' during AFIS hours must make a broadcast prior to or as soon as possible after entering the 'Broadcast Area'. The 'Broadcast Area' for YPPD is within 20 nms and surface to 8,000' AMSL.
What a joke.
This has got to be the result of a Cap'n Bloggs pet project. If so, well done Capn! Your own Nirvana with all those experienced aviation professionals pleasuring each other with all that talk.
I now see the ridiculousness to which Dick refers.
So the rule is that all aircraft departing, arriving or transiting a 'Broadcast Area' during AFIS hours must make a broadcast prior to or as soon as possible after entering the 'Broadcast Area'. The 'Broadcast Area' for YPPD is within 20 nms and surface to 8,000' AMSL.
What a joke.
This has got to be the result of a Cap'n Bloggs pet project. If so, well done Capn! Your own Nirvana with all those experienced aviation professionals pleasuring each other with all that talk.
Captain Midnight,
No its definitely staffed by ATC's ex Karratha. They commute up there by road for their run of shifts and then drive home.
One of them frequents these boards....I'm sure he is reading with interest
No its definitely staffed by ATC's ex Karratha. They commute up there by road for their run of shifts and then drive home.
One of them frequents these boards....I'm sure he is reading with interest
Back in the day, most AFIZ were at aerodromes that were predominantly origins, destinations, or waypoints which tended to concentrate the traffic. That's why they were established. There wasn't a whole lot of passing nearby traffic. As pointed out, most aircraft when they called inbound were only 5-8 minutes out, a jet maybe 3-4. Didn't seem an inordinate or troublesome impost, especially when straight in approaches got the nod. If you are going to have someone assess and pass traffic, weather and other relevant info, you have to give them time to do it. In most cases it was done far enough out for the pilot to then be able to concentrate on their approach and landing.
If they are all coming from or going to the same place, it doesn't matter how big it is. You're not catching any more aircraft.
Why is it huge? To catch lots of aircraft to make it look busy?