EFB and CPL flight test/training

[Old Akro]

The Garmin 430 is TSO'ed and the iPad isn't... one costs $400 and the other costs $8,000*+ They of course do use the same satellites.

Not completely. The iPad uses an Apple prostituted GPS system they call AGPS - for Assisted GPS. Apple are not forthcoming about what this really is, but it requires some access to the cellular network. In remote areas and / or higher altitudes, the iPads's own GPS is unreliable. This changes, of course, if you use an external GPS like the Dual units or connect to the aircrafts GPS via something like a Guardian unit.

But, this thread has mixed up the EFB function with moving map navigation software features of programmes like AvPlan, Ozrunways or Jepp FD.

I learned to use a slide rule at school and I like and value those skills. I was one of the highest seeded rally navigators and loved maps and marking them up with local knowledge. But these are skills of a previous era, as is drawing wind triangles on shirt cuffs like the early pilots did before wind computers.

Its time to let it go and embrace the new age.

If you have an EFB with all the required data (maps, AIP, DPAS, ETC) AND an adequate back up strategy (a second iPad, charging capacity or paper print outs), then you are legal and no test officer has any place to criticise. Most guys I know will have 2 iPads plus a charging mechanism and some key procedures for the flight as hard copy. FTDK will add about 5 other devices as well. An adequate strategy IS NOT an iPad and an IPhone as backup.

I would argue that it is important that (for your future) you are fluent in accessing the data you need from an EFB and have a cockpit organisation system to deal with it. None of the skills that I learned in marking up tracks on maps, refolding maps, cutting edges to make maps fit together, etc are relevant any more.

This provides static data. The second issue is relying on the moving map capabilities for navigation, which is a whole different kettle of fish. And here I would agree with other posters. Following the magenta line no display of airmanship.

The core visual navigation skills are not dependent on reading a paper map vs an electronic one. Read the " The Art of Flying" by Robert Buck. All of those skills are still valid in an electronic age. The level of airmanship evident in his book can still be practiced with an iPad.

[Duck Pilot]

Off the original topic a bit.

I do agree with your opinion 7700 re the TSO debate, I'm more referring to pilots being able to us non TSO'd equipment if it has design features made for the particular purpose - whatever that might be eg iPad with Ozrunways or a electronic flight panel to go into a VFR homebuilt.

The SAAA and/or RA AUS done an excellent case study on non TSO'd avionics to be fitted to homebuilts for the purpose of IFR certification. I haven't got a link to it at hand, whoever done it really done their home work. There is some really good non TSO'd equipment on the market, for a fraction of the price of the TSO'd equipment.

The purpose of the study was to try and convince CASA who knocked it back I think, however I'm sure the debate isn't dead in the water just yet.

[Ixixly]

Agreed TangoAlphad, it's for this reason that a Pilot IMHO should be required to use paper charts and maps, I'd probably say right up until the advanced stages of CPL when the student should then be introduced to EFBs like OzRunways, Avplan etc... and some PC Flight Planning Software such as they'll be using in the real world, it only makes sense if you want to produce Pilots that are ready to hit the Tarmac rolling!

You want them to understand the fundermentals that underpin using their Charts and Maps in general but also have the benefit of gaining all the additional benefits that EFBs bring with them!

[Old Akro]

Agreed TangoAlphad, it's for this reason that a Pilot IMHO should be required to use paper charts and maps,

I agree with you both about the skills, but disagree that it requires a paper map. I think that situational awareness is about being aware of whats outside the cockpit and reading the topography. The map could be a WAC chart, electronic chart, street map, or a drawing on the back of a beer coaster from a guy at the pub the night before.

Three of the experiences that taught me most were 1. Ferrying Pitts Specials that didn't have so much as an accurate compass and 2. Outback flying where you need to navigate in the macro and 3 NVMC where heading & time become more critical.

My experience about the CPL was learning passenger handling, operations manuals and learning to use maps less and take up less cockpit space so the passengers comfort and experience is improved. In my opinion CPL is not to fix teaching deficiencies from PPL. Its about teaching the additional skills required for a commercial environment.