They found the person in Melbourne doing fake radio calls !
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lead Balloon, you also need to consider that sentences handed down by the judiciary are not only meant to act as an appropriate punishment for the crime that has been committed, but to also act as a deterrent to others who might be considering doing the same thing.
Now, I'm well aware that the deterrence angle doesn't necessarily always work, after all people still try to smuggle drugs out of Indonesia, people still commit murder in the death penalty states in the US..
The fact is though that while the actions of the individual responsible for those radio calls may not have put lives at risk on this occasion, the possibility is certainly there. In my opinion, passing fake ATC instructions that are acted upon by the crew is as close as you can get to hijacking an aircraft without actually getting on board.
Whether the person charged is guilty or not I have no idea, but if he is he deserves to feel the full brunt of the law. He wont do it again, and hopefully others will have second thoughts as well.
Now, I'm well aware that the deterrence angle doesn't necessarily always work, after all people still try to smuggle drugs out of Indonesia, people still commit murder in the death penalty states in the US..
The fact is though that while the actions of the individual responsible for those radio calls may not have put lives at risk on this occasion, the possibility is certainly there. In my opinion, passing fake ATC instructions that are acted upon by the crew is as close as you can get to hijacking an aircraft without actually getting on board.
Whether the person charged is guilty or not I have no idea, but if he is he deserves to feel the full brunt of the law. He wont do it again, and hopefully others will have second thoughts as well.
All of that's fine in principle, Hempy.
I understand that one of the aims of penalties and sentencing is deterrence. But to get to the point at which the deterrence aim is promoted through a penalty, the offence has to be proven.
All I'm saying, as a general point rather than as a specific comment on a case the details of the charges and facts of which I have no knowledge other than through the media, is this: If a person has been charged with offences, one of the elements of which is the actual endangerment of life, and no lives were endangered in fact by the person's conduct, it follows that those offences were not committed and the theoretical penalty and its deterrence value are irrelevant. It's not that life might have been endangered or could have been endangered. It's that life was actually endangered.
However, I repeat: I have no knowledge of details of the charges and facts in this particular case other than through the media, and I'm just making a general comment.
I understand that one of the aims of penalties and sentencing is deterrence. But to get to the point at which the deterrence aim is promoted through a penalty, the offence has to be proven.
All I'm saying, as a general point rather than as a specific comment on a case the details of the charges and facts of which I have no knowledge other than through the media, is this: If a person has been charged with offences, one of the elements of which is the actual endangerment of life, and no lives were endangered in fact by the person's conduct, it follows that those offences were not committed and the theoretical penalty and its deterrence value are irrelevant. It's not that life might have been endangered or could have been endangered. It's that life was actually endangered.
However, I repeat: I have no knowledge of details of the charges and facts in this particular case other than through the media, and I'm just making a general comment.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,094
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the accused made just one radio call that blocked a genuine ATC instruction to an aircraft then there is a safety issue, particularly if the ATC instruction was related to maintaining separation.
I the outcome was a hundred or so dead bodies splattered all over the country side would the grieving relatives still think it is a minor issue of some poor guy with issues ? Are the general public not entitled to live a life and enjoy a safe flight somewhere. Individual rights and excuses should not endanger others freedom. We live in a society where every one gets a medal and there are no consequences for any acts or behaviour .
Like fining people for 17 th time driving unlicenced and unregistered and killing some one eventually with a car.
Like fining people for 17 th time driving unlicenced and unregistered and killing some one eventually with a car.
If there is no risk to safety when incidents like this occur, when why have ATC at all?
If reliable communications with ATC are not safety critical, then how can we justify an ATC service at all.
Lets re designate every aerodrome as a CTAF and save the money!
If reliable communications with ATC are not safety critical, then how can we justify an ATC service at all.
Lets re designate every aerodrome as a CTAF and save the money!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: GPS Signal Lost
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets re designate every aerodrome as a CTAF and save the money!
QANTAS79 HEAVY, eeerrrrrrrr......
AIRBUS 330,
CURRENTLY 5 NAUTICAL MILES TO errrrr.....THE NORTHWEST,
INTENTIONS ARE TO eeerrrr.....JOIN MID-FIELD CROSSWIND FOR RUNWAY 34,
TRAFFIC MELBOURNE!
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We live in a society where every one gets a medal and there are no consequences for any acts or behaviour .
Like fining people for 17 th time driving unlicenced and unregistered and killing some one eventually with a car.
Or breaking in to someone's house, bashing & robbing them, getting out on bail, doing it again to someone else, getting out on bail again, stealing another car, getting out on bail again, finally coming up before the courts, and punishment for all this..? Community corrections order and NO conviction recorded. Just like a lot of unfortunate peoples front doors in Melbourne, the system is seriously broken.
Like fining people for 17 th time driving unlicenced and unregistered and killing some one eventually with a car.
Or breaking in to someone's house, bashing & robbing them, getting out on bail, doing it again to someone else, getting out on bail again, stealing another car, getting out on bail again, finally coming up before the courts, and punishment for all this..? Community corrections order and NO conviction recorded. Just like a lot of unfortunate peoples front doors in Melbourne, the system is seriously broken.
Gawd.
Parabellum: "If".
That's why the facts about what actually happened, rather than speculation as to what could have happened, matter.
mikewil: "If".
Who said ATC is not an essential part of the system of air safety?
ATC is an essential part of the system of air safety. But whether safety is, in fact, compromised in a specific set of factual circumstances depends on the facts.
Clearly the spin doctors were of the view that there was in fact no compromise to safety, in the specific set of circumstances that existed in fact, because that's in effect what they said in fact.
The facts may end up being important.
Parabellum: "If".
That's why the facts about what actually happened, rather than speculation as to what could have happened, matter.
mikewil: "If".
Who said ATC is not an essential part of the system of air safety?
ATC is an essential part of the system of air safety. But whether safety is, in fact, compromised in a specific set of factual circumstances depends on the facts.
Clearly the spin doctors were of the view that there was in fact no compromise to safety, in the specific set of circumstances that existed in fact, because that's in effect what they said in fact.
The facts may end up being important.
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: eastcoastoz
Age: 76
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LB,
While the name PPRuNe might seem to suggest that it is just a rumour network...
I have not noticed any actual rumours being spread on this thread so far.
This sad person (and others of his ilk) need to have it strongly pointed out to them the probable consequences of such behaviour.
One possibility is that the more publicity this clown's activities receive in the mainstream media, the greater likelihood some other silly kiddies will decide they can do even better.
A worry.
.
While the name PPRuNe might seem to suggest that it is just a rumour network...
I have not noticed any actual rumours being spread on this thread so far.
This sad person (and others of his ilk) need to have it strongly pointed out to them the probable consequences of such behaviour.
One possibility is that the more publicity this clown's activities receive in the mainstream media, the greater likelihood some other silly kiddies will decide they can do even better.
A worry.
.
Last edited by Stanwell; 24th Nov 2016 at 03:18.
according to this: Teenage would-be pilot charged over hoax cockpit calls was sacked by Virgin he was ex-virgin ground crew, sacked in September for undisclosed reasons.
Last edited by cooperplace; 24th Nov 2016 at 03:18.
If the airspace is that fragile, we should be grounding the entire fleet until measures can be implemented to mitigate this...
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Dog House
Age: 49
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Virgin aircraft gets a call via either phone to airport or direct to ATC, your aircraft has a pressure sensitive vessel on board - Do Not descend below 1,500 or above 3,000 or stray 5 NM radius from airfield.
Would such a call be more or less an "issues" if made direct via VHF to the aircraft?
Would such a call be more or less an "issues" if made direct via VHF to the aircraft?
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IFEZ
We live in a society where every one gets a medal and there are no consequences for any acts or behaviour .
Like fining people for 17 th time driving unlicenced and unregistered and killing some one eventually with a car.
Or breaking in to someone's house, bashing & robbing them, getting out on bail, doing it again to someone else, getting out on bail again, stealing another car, getting out on bail again, finally coming up before the courts, and punishment for all this..? Community corrections order and NO conviction recorded. Just like a lot of unfortunate peoples front doors in Melbourne, the system is seriously broken.
We live in a society where every one gets a medal and there are no consequences for any acts or behaviour .
Like fining people for 17 th time driving unlicenced and unregistered and killing some one eventually with a car.
Or breaking in to someone's house, bashing & robbing them, getting out on bail, doing it again to someone else, getting out on bail again, stealing another car, getting out on bail again, finally coming up before the courts, and punishment for all this..? Community corrections order and NO conviction recorded. Just like a lot of unfortunate peoples front doors in Melbourne, the system is seriously broken.
You nailed it.
Totally agree.
Prison sentences cost Govt money, so probation, suspended sentences, conviction and released.
Speed cameras, now that's where the money is.
They should set the example with this guy and jail him for the maximum penalty allowed.
Acrosport II wrote:
"They should set the example with this guy and jail him for the maximum penalty allowed."
Goodness! Has the accused been found guilty of anything yet?
"String him up, it'll teach him a lesson." somehow comes to mind here..
"They should set the example with this guy and jail him for the maximum penalty allowed."
Goodness! Has the accused been found guilty of anything yet?
"String him up, it'll teach him a lesson." somehow comes to mind here..
It costs approximately $100k per annum to house a prisoner in Victoria. I was told this by the head of a maximum security prison only a couple of weeks back.
Some prisoners are locked up in their cells for 23 hours a day. It's not somewhere where the average person ever wants to end up! It's quite a sad place really. All they want (generally) is to be outside with their families.
Some prisoners are locked up in their cells for 23 hours a day. It's not somewhere where the average person ever wants to end up! It's quite a sad place really. All they want (generally) is to be outside with their families.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The alleged behaviour of whoever did this is completely unacceptable...but there's a reason we have a judicial system. The courts will determine, on the basis of the evidence, whether he is guilty or not. The courts will also decide, taking into account all of the circumstances, the appropriate punishment, should he be found guilty.
I haven't got any of the information I need, even should it be my job, in order to decide guilt and penalty. I think we have a good system that's fair and generally gets it right. We should leave it to the system.
I haven't got any of the information I need, even should it be my job, in order to decide guilt and penalty. I think we have a good system that's fair and generally gets it right. We should leave it to the system.
The alleged behaviour of whoever did this is completely unacceptable...but there's a reason we have a judicial system. The courts will determine, on the basis of the evidence, whether he is guilty or not. The courts will also decide, taking into account all of the circumstances, the appropriate punishment, should he be found guilty.
I, too, find the alleged behaviour completely unacceptable. The only point I was trying to make to some others is that the alleged behaviour constitutes many offences that do not require the prosecution to prove lives were actually put in danger, and are therefore less difficult to prove, yet still incur substantial penalties including periods of imprisonment.