Logging of Flight Time
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Aus
Logging of Flight Time
Scenario: You and your buddy are flying a single engine type for which you are both qualified to act as PIC, and have full instrumentation/controls at each pilot station. POH only requires one pilot. Can one log PIC while the other logs co-pilot? Or can/can't the non handling pilot log anything at all? I appreciate there may be commercial ops that require two pilots due to the nature of operations, but am talking here of private where no requirement for two exists.
The CAR's define co-pilot as "co-pilot means a pilot serving in any piloting capacity other than the pilot in command".
The CAR's define co-pilot as "co-pilot means a pilot serving in any piloting capacity other than the pilot in command".
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Maybe this...
CIVIL AVIATION SAFETY REGULATIONS 1998 - REG 61.085
Definition of flight time as co-pilot for Part 61
A person's flight time as a co-pilot is any period, during flight in an aircraft that, under these Regulations, must be flown with a flight crew of at least 2 pilots, in which the person is performing co-pilot duties other than as pilot in command under supervision.
Definition of flight time as co-pilot for Part 61
A person's flight time as a co-pilot is any period, during flight in an aircraft that, under these Regulations, must be flown with a flight crew of at least 2 pilots, in which the person is performing co-pilot duties other than as pilot in command under supervision.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Aus
Jack, you're a sharp one and onto me. 
Many thanks Capt, I'm out of the game and have no knowledge of all the new bumf.
So only one person (PIC) can log any time, since both are PIC qualified?
Many thanks Capt, I'm out of the game and have no knowledge of all the new bumf.
So only one person (PIC) can log any time, since both are PIC qualified?
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: Sydney
The other slightly curly one is when two pilots are both rated on the aircraft and one is "under the hood" practicing instrument flight. In the USA both can log time as both are required under the rules and it is actually quite common to send 2 commercial students(who hold PPLs and instrument ratings) off together to practice instrument flight.
In Australia I am not sure how that would be logged.
In Australia I am not sure how that would be logged.
Joined: Apr 2015
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From: Sydney
When flying 'mutual', usually done under FIR training, only 1 person can log the flight time. Theres no more details other then that about who gets to log the time.
Previously for the IF practice flights, the pilot under the hood logs so that he can get the IF time, and the other pilot is the 'safety pilot' (No logged time). I think theres been changes around that now in that only an instructor can be the safety pilot (and therefore PIC with the other in dual time)
Previously for the IF practice flights, the pilot under the hood logs so that he can get the IF time, and the other pilot is the 'safety pilot' (No logged time). I think theres been changes around that now in that only an instructor can be the safety pilot (and therefore PIC with the other in dual time)
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: Sydney
[quote I think theres been changes around that now in that only an instructor can be the safety pilot [/quote]
It would be a shame (and a detriment to safety) if that was the case in the new part 61. Pilots can learn a lot from practicing instrument flying.
It would be a shame (and a detriment to safety) if that was the case in the new part 61. Pilots can learn a lot from practicing instrument flying.
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Sydney Australia
Capt Fathom's answer is not the whole story. If a multi pilot capable (not necessarily required to have 2 pilots) aircraft has a co-pilot, is being flown in accordance with multi crew procedures in the AOC holder's operations manual, then co pilot time may be logged.
See CASA EX116/15
Of course in the OP's example of tooling around in a PVT operation, the exemption does not apply so no co pilot time as others have said.
See CASA EX116/15
Of course in the OP's example of tooling around in a PVT operation, the exemption does not apply so no co pilot time as others have said.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Aus
scavenger, there are a lot of stories. The aircraft I once flew could be flown single pilot whether it be VFR or IMC. If there were some degradation in the auto stabilisation/autopilot modes it required two pilots for IMC, but not VFR. In any event the operator required two pilots for its VFR operations anyway.
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Perth Australia
It seems some people need to gain hours by ANY means possible??
Hours mean B*&^er all. it is experience which counts, do your "monitoring of IFR" by all means in SE SP Operations, but fer C*&^%s sake be honest how you log what, when and how.
The industry is going to hell in a hand basket fast enough with CASA's help, don't push the operation further down hill.
All my co-Pilot time was half cut always to Aeronautical Experience totals anyway. Doesn't mean much in 19,000 hrs total over 40 yrs
I prefer to go by ship these days anyway.
Hours mean B*&^er all. it is experience which counts, do your "monitoring of IFR" by all means in SE SP Operations, but fer C*&^%s sake be honest how you log what, when and how.
The industry is going to hell in a hand basket fast enough with CASA's help, don't push the operation further down hill.
All my co-Pilot time was half cut always to Aeronautical Experience totals anyway. Doesn't mean much in 19,000 hrs total over 40 yrs
I prefer to go by ship these days anyway.
