Ridiculous gender political correctness in ATSB reports

[Stanwell]

So the gender reference issue comes down to whether one's opinion is "ill-equipped", eh?
This comes from a 'lost identity' member which seems to have some literacy problems itself.
Love it.

Anyway, my sister once told me that she was way better off than me - because she could have as many Dicks as she liked.
.

[Arm out the window]

For those that are actually interested in why government bodies choose gender neutral language in official documents

The issue isn't gender neutrality in writing, it's poor English. Changing from singular to plural in the same sentence is a dodgy way of dealing with the issue.

Consider this excerpt from an actual accident report:

"The pilot's balls were itchy, and when they reached down to scratch them, they inadvertently knocked the fuel selector to the 'off' position, causing an immediate and total engine power loss due to fuel starvation."

See - terrible! It should have read 'The pilot's balls were itchy, and when he or she reached down to scratch them, he or she inadvertently knocked the fuel selector to the 'off' position.' That's much better.

[kaz3g]

It's a shame that English doesn't have a genderless singular pronoun, which leads to the use of "they" and "their" when talking about a single person. That said, it always annoys me, and sometimes confuses me when it is done. I think it's better to construct sentences to avoid it, and if that requires "he or she" then so be it?

When I went to school "it" was the genderless singular pronoun but, strangely enough, people don't appreciate being called that.

And back in 1963 when I matriculated, it was absolutely (sorry, can't say that anymore) correct to use "they" and "their" to "emasculate"....sorry, "neutralise" the gender attribution.

Kaz
Kaz

[AerocatS2A]

Originally Posted by Arm out the window

The issue isn't gender neutrality in writing, it's poor English. Changing from singular to plural in the same sentence is a dodgy way of dealing with the issue.

It's not "plural" and it's not dodgy English. The singular "they" has been around since the 1300s!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

Singular they is the use in English of the pronoun they, or its inflected or derivative forms, such as them, their, themself, or themselves, as a gender-neutral pronoun to refer to a single person or an antecedent that is grammatically singular. It typically occurs with an antecedent of indeterminate gender, as in sentences such as:

"Somebody left their umbrella in the office. Would they please collect it?"[1]
"The patient should be told at the outset how much they will be required to pay."[2]
"But a journalist should not be forced to reveal their sources."[2]
The singular they had emerged by the 14th century and is common in everyday spoken English, but its use has been the target of criticism since the late 19th century.

[le Pingouin]

For those who object what would your English master have made of this: "As if I were their well-acquainted friend"

[Square Bear]

.....And everyone doth call me by my name.

Now there is someone we can blame for it all!

It is easy to see why the English Language is considered difficult to non indigenous speakers. Those with Level 6 have trouble with the nuances of the language.

Yep, reports using gender in extreme PC speak, IMHO, is distracting,...."but ya get the guv'ment machine ye vote fa"

The ABC has a very eminent Professor, Prof Roly Sussex, who present "A WORD IN YOUR EAR, that discects language evolution.

The linked podcast at around 4 minutes deals with the very gender grammar under discussion on this thread.

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/local/brisbane/inyourear/201603/r1540982_23030803.mp3

[Arm out the window]

"Somebody left their umbrella in the office. Would they please collect it?"
"The patient should be told at the outset how much they will be required to pay."
"But a journalist should not be forced to reveal their sources."

Well and good, Aerocat, but I reckon those sentences could be easily 'fixed', and cover situations where the gender is actually indeterminate, rather than an accident or incident report where the gender is known.

"Would the person who left an umbrella in the office please collect it?"
"The patient should be told at the outset how much the payment will be."
"But journalists should not be forced to reveal their sources."

[AerocatS2A]

Sure you could do that, if you wanted to. There's no particular reason to though.

I agree that if the identity is known AND is public information then just use the correct pronouns, however Centaurus seemed to be referring to reports where the identity is not public knowledge.

He makes the mistake of assuming "they" is used to hide the gender of the pilot when it is actually there to help hide the identity of the pilot. He then goes on to say that 'the pilot" should be used instead. Well, what is he complaining about exactly? If he is complaining about using words that hide the pilot's gender then "s/he", "he or she", "the pilot", and "they", all serve the same purpose and are as bad as each other. If he is complaining that "they" is not an acceptable singular pronoun then he is simply wrong. It has been used like this for many hundreds of years.

I think Centaurus is looking to be offended by what he sees as excessive PC language. Looking for ways to be offended is exactly the kind of behaviour that got PC its bad name in the first place.

[De_flieger]

Surely not AerocatS2A, it's entirely unlike PPRuNe to be populated by cranky older guys complaining about how things were better in their youth and PC being the death of us all!

[Stanwell]

I'll refer again to those trendy phrases so beloved of junior media hacks...
"It's increasingly common" and, even worse, "It is now widely accepted".
I tend to come back with .. "Oh yes, amongst whom - and by whom?"

It's about then that they ask something like .. "Is your coffee milk and two?"

[Arm out the window]

Margaret Thatcher's relentless putdown of the journo trying that kind of thing on her was good to watch, if a little bit scary - something along the lines of:

"Prime Minister, it has been said that you're out of touch ....":

Rather than be sucked in, she goes on the attack -
"Who has said this? What are their names?" etc etc