Pilot Trec Smith and Marree man.
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Dexta,
Also the one size fits all approach needs to be changed. The process is the same for 1 small sapling that has just grown in your back access road as it is to clear 5,000,000 hectares. That's just plain dumb!
I read through several of the environmental prosecutions (sadly most were intention contaminated fluid into other water sources), the ones related to unapproved clearing seem to fall into 2 categories.
a) Looked into process was to hard so just did the small clearing.
An example of this was a guy had a property next to Crown Land and he had cattle on his fenced property. On the Crown Land were 5 or 6 small trees that were against his fence in away that would have had the fence break and the cattle to escape onto the Crown Land. He asked council about removing them and got the 16 volumes of how to comply with requirements to get approval - he just removed the offending trees and copped a sizable fine. Now I am no expert but at a guess cows eat stuff and lots of it, regardless of it being native or not! So it stands to reason that the farmer should go into the council and say I need to remove these trees or they will break the fence and 120 cows are going to eat everything on your land, and a permit should be issued.
b) the penalty will be worth the gain.
In this case they also knew they needed a permit to clear and the process of how to get one. The problem was 18 plants that can not be removed would not allow for said development (plants would have been in middle of house plots). The entire site was cleared and $10,000 fine issued. In a rare case they were also required to plant 18 of the same type plants on any part of the development they wished. This I hardly find as a deterrent.
In the case of the Marree Man I went through the link DF supplied and I could not find a category that suited the clearing. It was not cleared for mining, fencing, roads, firebreak, or even the "other section" It has been called art and vandalism neither have a category in that detailed document.
When things are so hard and complicated to get, the desired result is often opposite by a large factor.
Also the one size fits all approach needs to be changed. The process is the same for 1 small sapling that has just grown in your back access road as it is to clear 5,000,000 hectares. That's just plain dumb!
I read through several of the environmental prosecutions (sadly most were intention contaminated fluid into other water sources), the ones related to unapproved clearing seem to fall into 2 categories.
a) Looked into process was to hard so just did the small clearing.
An example of this was a guy had a property next to Crown Land and he had cattle on his fenced property. On the Crown Land were 5 or 6 small trees that were against his fence in away that would have had the fence break and the cattle to escape onto the Crown Land. He asked council about removing them and got the 16 volumes of how to comply with requirements to get approval - he just removed the offending trees and copped a sizable fine. Now I am no expert but at a guess cows eat stuff and lots of it, regardless of it being native or not! So it stands to reason that the farmer should go into the council and say I need to remove these trees or they will break the fence and 120 cows are going to eat everything on your land, and a permit should be issued.
b) the penalty will be worth the gain.
In this case they also knew they needed a permit to clear and the process of how to get one. The problem was 18 plants that can not be removed would not allow for said development (plants would have been in middle of house plots). The entire site was cleared and $10,000 fine issued. In a rare case they were also required to plant 18 of the same type plants on any part of the development they wished. This I hardly find as a deterrent.
In the case of the Marree Man I went through the link DF supplied and I could not find a category that suited the clearing. It was not cleared for mining, fencing, roads, firebreak, or even the "other section" It has been called art and vandalism neither have a category in that detailed document.
When things are so hard and complicated to get, the desired result is often opposite by a large factor.
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The bottom line is, to install an "etching" or construction of a very large, highly visible ground statement from the air, means that many hectares of vegetation must be removed and the ground totally denuded - and for it to stay totally denuded.
This goes against all land management policies in semi-desert areas, where even small amounts of vegetation removal - be they native or introduced species, can have dramatic effects upon the balance of nature.
A far better option to create the Marree Man and to ensure it stayed intact would be some form of colour differentation from the natural ground colour - as the Japanese do with their coloured rice crops.
IMO, the Japanese artwork truly is creative and intelligent, as compared to the essentially crude graffiti technique that created the Marree Man.
The artistic rice fields of Japan
This goes against all land management policies in semi-desert areas, where even small amounts of vegetation removal - be they native or introduced species, can have dramatic effects upon the balance of nature.
A far better option to create the Marree Man and to ensure it stayed intact would be some form of colour differentation from the natural ground colour - as the Japanese do with their coloured rice crops.
IMO, the Japanese artwork truly is creative and intelligent, as compared to the essentially crude graffiti technique that created the Marree Man.
The artistic rice fields of Japan
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This land was Crown Land at time of original clearing, this cleared land then was given Native Title to the Arabana people.
If no direction was given in the Native Title deal the Arabana people would have the right to maintain it to the cleared condition it was at time of hand back, on the assumption it was an approved clearing- no instruction that it must be revegetated. In much the same way roads and firebreaks are maintained on Native Title land after hand back.
3 years of negotiations with the Arabana people we can expect they approved the clearing. What the other group wish is not relevant as they do not have the Native Title.
I think I read that 2 publicans stumped up the cash for the clearing, not sure that equals driving the grader. If in doubt as per the law the Land Owner did it.
An Air Force Macchi instructor decades ago reputedly drew a giant cock and balls over Perth with his contrail. Now, that's a 'famous artist'.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 28th Dec 2016 at 06:28.
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Page 10 of the Mildura Weekly of 15th January, 2010 gives one outline of the origins of the Marree Man "artwork".
Give me a big patch of bush, lend me a GPS, advance me $10,000, lend me a Caterpillar D6 bulldozer, and give me 600 litres of fuel, and I reckon I could call myself a "famous artist", too!
In fact, I've done multiple thousands of clearing jobs, mining exploration gridlines, major earthmoving alterations to the face of the planet (from drainage to dams to roads), hundreds of mining excavations - all of which can be seen from space, and which all feature on millions of Google Maps.
Where do I collect my "famous earthworks artist", certificate?
I've only been doing this since 1965 - and all with the seal of Govt approval, and fully legal, too!
The Mildura Weekly - 15/01/2010
Give me a big patch of bush, lend me a GPS, advance me $10,000, lend me a Caterpillar D6 bulldozer, and give me 600 litres of fuel, and I reckon I could call myself a "famous artist", too!
In fact, I've done multiple thousands of clearing jobs, mining exploration gridlines, major earthmoving alterations to the face of the planet (from drainage to dams to roads), hundreds of mining excavations - all of which can be seen from space, and which all feature on millions of Google Maps.
Where do I collect my "famous earthworks artist", certificate?
I've only been doing this since 1965 - and all with the seal of Govt approval, and fully legal, too! The Mildura Weekly - 15/01/2010
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Now, that's a 'famous artist'.
(Presuming there was only the one incident).
An RAAF Academy aero engineer - don't recall whether it was during his wings course or on a subsequent ENGO posting and, so far as I know, he never went through CFS. Undergrad colleague of mine at Sydney Uni. I vaguely recall reading a local Perth newspaper article (suitably toned down) at the time which I can't find via net searches at the moment ...
Can't remember the specific year but it would have been during the early-mid 70s.
(Presuming there was only the one incident).
An RAAF Academy aero engineer - don't recall whether it was during his wings course or on a subsequent ENGO posting and, so far as I know, he never went through CFS. Undergrad colleague of mine at Sydney Uni. I vaguely recall reading a local Perth newspaper article (suitably toned down) at the time which I can't find via net searches at the moment ...
Can't remember the specific year but it would have been during the early-mid 70s.
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There's a substantial amount of reading in the article below (193 pages, to be precise), that both Phil Turner and Dick Smith should have made themselves familiar with, before they raced off with their huge Marree Man re-instatement, tourism plan.
It's called the Marree Soil Conservation Board District Plan, and it's designed to conform with the relevant Soil Conservation legislation in South Australia - the Soil Conservation and Land Care Act 1989.
This legislation operates in conjunction with other previously-mentioned environmental laws, that control native vegetation clearing.
Essentially, the onus is on landowners (and that includes Native Title landowners) to care for their land, to prevent the degradation of their land, and to encourage natural biodiversity.
Besides the previously-mentioned native vegetation clearing legislation, soil conservation plans not only cover protection of native vegetation species, they also cover Introduced Weed control, Feral Animal control, tourist impact control, and dozens of other areas - all specifically aimed at preventing land degradation by thoughtless, ill-informed, and maverick actions by people who prefer to think they can operate on a gung-ho basis, with no reference to any authority.
Marree Soil Conservation Board - District Plan
It's called the Marree Soil Conservation Board District Plan, and it's designed to conform with the relevant Soil Conservation legislation in South Australia - the Soil Conservation and Land Care Act 1989.
This legislation operates in conjunction with other previously-mentioned environmental laws, that control native vegetation clearing.
Essentially, the onus is on landowners (and that includes Native Title landowners) to care for their land, to prevent the degradation of their land, and to encourage natural biodiversity.
Besides the previously-mentioned native vegetation clearing legislation, soil conservation plans not only cover protection of native vegetation species, they also cover Introduced Weed control, Feral Animal control, tourist impact control, and dozens of other areas - all specifically aimed at preventing land degradation by thoughtless, ill-informed, and maverick actions by people who prefer to think they can operate on a gung-ho basis, with no reference to any authority.
Marree Soil Conservation Board - District Plan
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onetrack, any claim as you said goes to the "land owners" please advise any government response in a "legal historic for on Native Title" then any penalty.
God dam people think all this stuff - but facts are NO environment shyt is required on local or federal level on """"""""certain lands"""""""""""""""""" as per the port at port Melville.
P.S these folk have 1 billion years of conservation records and plans on the land.
God dam people think all this stuff - but facts are NO environment shyt is required on local or federal level on """"""""certain lands"""""""""""""""""" as per the port at port Melville.
P.S these folk have 1 billion years of conservation records and plans on the land.
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Onetrack. No I was not familiar with that document.
I had no need to be. I came with an offer to the local aboriginal community that I would fund the restoration if that's what they wanted. They appeared enthusiastic however before we had any further discussion the restoration work was completed.
I only heard about the restoration after it was completed,
I have now provided the money to the Arabunna Community for an airstrip to be constructed nearby to Marree Man so they have the potential to earn a dollar by taking tourists to the site
No doubt a hugely expensive EIS will have to be completed before this strip goes in and that will probably be un affordable !
I had no need to be. I came with an offer to the local aboriginal community that I would fund the restoration if that's what they wanted. They appeared enthusiastic however before we had any further discussion the restoration work was completed.
I only heard about the restoration after it was completed,
I have now provided the money to the Arabunna Community for an airstrip to be constructed nearby to Marree Man so they have the potential to earn a dollar by taking tourists to the site
No doubt a hugely expensive EIS will have to be completed before this strip goes in and that will probably be un affordable !
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Dick, in every area of Australia, there are development restrictions - whether those areas are urban, rural or outback desert country. Every patch of land has a defined use or zoning.
If I buy some freehold land, I have to investigate the "allowed uses" of the patch of land, before I buy that land, and abide by them after I purchase it.
If I want to construct anything that consists of a defined structure, I have to apply for permission and abide by building and structural codes, and a myriad of other by-laws.
It's the price we pay for our civilised and developed society. Yes, some rules and regulations are petty, and need to be slapped down - or strong arguments put forward, that compliance with petty regulations is not particularly important in your proposed construction/addition/development.
As with all Govt depts, well-reasoned and properly-written-up applications need not cost a fortune, and go a long way to assuaging the doubts of those in power that you're not a maverick, that you recognise the rules and the reasons they exist, and you're happy to abide by them.
Any new airstrip construction will need to address community benefits, existing infrastructure impacts (will the local roads withstand increased traffic to the airstrip and if not, who will fund upgrades to the roads?), drainage issues, soil and vegetation disturbance issues, noise impacts, livestock and native animal impacts, pollution control (oil and fuel spills), and abide by all existing health dept codes.
It's not rocket science, but a new project proposal does involve thought, preparedness, and community discussion and consultation, to ensure that your project proceeds smoothly, and addresses the concerns of all interested parties.
If I buy some freehold land, I have to investigate the "allowed uses" of the patch of land, before I buy that land, and abide by them after I purchase it.
If I want to construct anything that consists of a defined structure, I have to apply for permission and abide by building and structural codes, and a myriad of other by-laws.
It's the price we pay for our civilised and developed society. Yes, some rules and regulations are petty, and need to be slapped down - or strong arguments put forward, that compliance with petty regulations is not particularly important in your proposed construction/addition/development.
As with all Govt depts, well-reasoned and properly-written-up applications need not cost a fortune, and go a long way to assuaging the doubts of those in power that you're not a maverick, that you recognise the rules and the reasons they exist, and you're happy to abide by them.
Any new airstrip construction will need to address community benefits, existing infrastructure impacts (will the local roads withstand increased traffic to the airstrip and if not, who will fund upgrades to the roads?), drainage issues, soil and vegetation disturbance issues, noise impacts, livestock and native animal impacts, pollution control (oil and fuel spills), and abide by all existing health dept codes.
It's not rocket science, but a new project proposal does involve thought, preparedness, and community discussion and consultation, to ensure that your project proceeds smoothly, and addresses the concerns of all interested parties.
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Gerry111 - When you click on the "Mildura Weekly" link, you can go to full-screen size simply by clicking on the "fullscreen", box-shaped icon on the bottom RH corner of the magazine page. This brings up readable-size print.
You can return to the regular screen by pressing the '"esc" button on the top LH corner of your keyboard.
You can return to the regular screen by pressing the '"esc" button on the top LH corner of your keyboard.
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"It's not rocket science, but a new project proposal does involve thought, preparedness, and community discussion and consultation, to ensure that your project proceeds smoothly, and addresses the concerns of all interested parties."
At that same meeting, the committee reversed its previous decision not to grant heritage clearance for the proposed freeway works.
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...P=share_btn_fb
I would suggest a degree of rocket science is required!
Given the amount of very suspicious approvals given (and I have posted a few), In my honest opinion anybody has the right to think these approvals have absolutely no consideration for the environment. They are a tool that can be used if required, to stop a development/event for an opposing person/s benefit/gain.
At that same meeting, the committee reversed its previous decision not to grant heritage clearance for the proposed freeway works.
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...P=share_btn_fb
I would suggest a degree of rocket science is required!
Given the amount of very suspicious approvals given (and I have posted a few), In my honest opinion anybody has the right to think these approvals have absolutely no consideration for the environment. They are a tool that can be used if required, to stop a development/event for an opposing person/s benefit/gain.
Onetrack. No I was not familiar with that document.
I had no need to be. I came with an offer to the local aboriginal community that I would fund the restoration if that's what they wanted. They appeared enthusiastic however before we had any further discussion the restoration work was completed.
I only heard about the restoration after it was completed,
I have now provided the money to the Arabunna Community for an airstrip to be constructed nearby to Marree Man so they have the potential to earn a dollar by taking tourists to the site
No doubt a hugely expensive EIS will have to be completed before this strip goes in and that will probably be un affordable !
I had no need to be. I came with an offer to the local aboriginal community that I would fund the restoration if that's what they wanted. They appeared enthusiastic however before we had any further discussion the restoration work was completed.
I only heard about the restoration after it was completed,
I have now provided the money to the Arabunna Community for an airstrip to be constructed nearby to Marree Man so they have the potential to earn a dollar by taking tourists to the site
No doubt a hugely expensive EIS will have to be completed before this strip goes in and that will probably be un affordable !
DF.
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I would hazard an educated guess that there are numerous developments that have proceeded, against the best advice and strongest objections, as a result of corruption at high levels.
Australia is no different to any other nation in this regard, it's just our bribery and corruption is kept a lot more secret than many nations, where its carried out openly.
In the case of the Roe 8 freeway extension (in the link provided by Band a Lot), this project has been the subject of major opposition for a long time, and it does involves substantial native vegetation removal, construction disturbance and peoples lives and homesites being disrupted - along with "disturbance" of Aboriginal artefacts.
However, this project has been planned for many many years, the land has been reserved for that project for many many years - and the freeway extension is needed, as it is the vital, final link from the important primary port of Fremantle to the major distribution centres of Perth city.
There have been many opposing groups against the project, from rabid Greens who oppose any form of development, to people who were greatly concerned that their houses would be bulldozed.
The Fremantle area is a hotbed of anti-development, anti-everything, groups of people. This is the same mob who tried to change Australia Day to Jan 28th, as they "felt deeply for the Original Australians" who "view Australia Day as Invasion Day".
All I can say, is that this vocal and rabid group would find a reason anywhere to stop anything that looked like some form of progress.
Aboriginal "artifacts" can be found in most places in Australia, merely by doing a little digging, and sometimes you don't even have to dig for them.
I've picked up sections of classic Aboriginal stone grinding bowls from the wheatbelt, and I didn't report their discovery or trumpet to the world that I'd uncovered a sacred site, or found "important archealogical artefacts".
I merely handed them to a local lady who had a collection of the local native artefacts, just to save them from being lost again.
In the case of Aboriginal "sacred sites", it is generally now recognised that the interpretation of "sacred site" by Aboriginals is quite different to what White Australians regard as a "sacred site".
To Aboriginals, the entire land is sacred, and their Dreamtime stories are woven into the landscape features and the heavens as well.
The definition of "Aboriginal Sacred Site" has gradually been tightened to exclude a lot of spurious claims and to try and ensure that any "sacred site" was used specifically and regularly for tribal initiation purposes or some other ritual purpose.
Of course, with the Aboriginals keeping nothing but oral records, this precise identification of "sacred sites" becomes a lawyers gold mine.
Anytime a few ancient Aboriginal artefacts are dug up, it's generally time for the "opposition-to-development" crowd, to form a united front, with Aboriginal backing, to try to extract concessions, funding, or some other advantage for themselves.
Australia is no different to any other nation in this regard, it's just our bribery and corruption is kept a lot more secret than many nations, where its carried out openly.
In the case of the Roe 8 freeway extension (in the link provided by Band a Lot), this project has been the subject of major opposition for a long time, and it does involves substantial native vegetation removal, construction disturbance and peoples lives and homesites being disrupted - along with "disturbance" of Aboriginal artefacts.
However, this project has been planned for many many years, the land has been reserved for that project for many many years - and the freeway extension is needed, as it is the vital, final link from the important primary port of Fremantle to the major distribution centres of Perth city.
There have been many opposing groups against the project, from rabid Greens who oppose any form of development, to people who were greatly concerned that their houses would be bulldozed.
The Fremantle area is a hotbed of anti-development, anti-everything, groups of people. This is the same mob who tried to change Australia Day to Jan 28th, as they "felt deeply for the Original Australians" who "view Australia Day as Invasion Day".
All I can say, is that this vocal and rabid group would find a reason anywhere to stop anything that looked like some form of progress.
Aboriginal "artifacts" can be found in most places in Australia, merely by doing a little digging, and sometimes you don't even have to dig for them.
I've picked up sections of classic Aboriginal stone grinding bowls from the wheatbelt, and I didn't report their discovery or trumpet to the world that I'd uncovered a sacred site, or found "important archealogical artefacts".
I merely handed them to a local lady who had a collection of the local native artefacts, just to save them from being lost again.
In the case of Aboriginal "sacred sites", it is generally now recognised that the interpretation of "sacred site" by Aboriginals is quite different to what White Australians regard as a "sacred site".
To Aboriginals, the entire land is sacred, and their Dreamtime stories are woven into the landscape features and the heavens as well.
The definition of "Aboriginal Sacred Site" has gradually been tightened to exclude a lot of spurious claims and to try and ensure that any "sacred site" was used specifically and regularly for tribal initiation purposes or some other ritual purpose.
Of course, with the Aboriginals keeping nothing but oral records, this precise identification of "sacred sites" becomes a lawyers gold mine.
Anytime a few ancient Aboriginal artefacts are dug up, it's generally time for the "opposition-to-development" crowd, to form a united front, with Aboriginal backing, to try to extract concessions, funding, or some other advantage for themselves.
Last edited by onetrack; 29th Dec 2016 at 03:14.
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So we can forget about environmental impacts and statements) if we bribe the right person/group, it is "vital" and been a plan for years.
But the majority must actually follow the rules!
Would be funny in Australia had the Egyptian's not Aborigine's, that Sphinx is in the way of a plan I have had for years.
"final link from the important primary port of Fremantle to the major distribution centres of Perth city"
What taxi driver did you ask? Bibra Lake is about 8km SE of Freemantle and Perth City is around 15 km to the NE.
Since the site had enough indigenous items to warrant a survey in 1970's, why was Farrington Road never in the plan. I lived in Bibra Lake in 1985was not much around that entire area.
But the majority must actually follow the rules!
Would be funny in Australia had the Egyptian's not Aborigine's, that Sphinx is in the way of a plan I have had for years.
"final link from the important primary port of Fremantle to the major distribution centres of Perth city"
What taxi driver did you ask? Bibra Lake is about 8km SE of Freemantle and Perth City is around 15 km to the NE.
Since the site had enough indigenous items to warrant a survey in 1970's, why was Farrington Road never in the plan. I lived in Bibra Lake in 1985was not much around that entire area.