Metro versus Cessna C150
One of the issues that I have found is that VFR & IFR pilots speak different languages and have different maps. VFR pilots tend to reference their position compared with ground features. IFR pilots tend to use distance & bearing from airports, aids or intersections. Intersection names used to frequently give clues to where they are, but post the ground based aid shutdown they are meaningless. A VFR pilot might understand 10nm from Cowes, but is unlikely to have any idea what 10nm from Sunti means. Conversely, an IFR flight may not even have a WAC chart on board and may not really understand something like abeam Egg Lagoon (a real place on track on King Is).
When doing an approach during an IR renewal, if I give a position report in "IFR speak" I would expect to get chatted by my ATO for not using language that should make sense to a VFR pilot in the circuit area or environs.
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 3rd Aug 2016 at 08:23.
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Isn't this a training issue?
Trouble is those that conduct the training are not across the subject. You only have to look at the differences of what is taught between flying schools and even RPT operators and how in practice they interact in the system.
Some years ago it was proposed by one segment of industry that all reports on CTAFs etc relating to inbound and outbound calls should use compass quadrants rather that bearings or radials so as to keep it simple. CASA did not understand and did not take up the recommendation. Same seems still to apply. Not the same since the days when the FOI's actually went flying!
CASA fail to understand these procedures and many operators have developed their own to cater for the situations that they encounter every day. Trouble is those procedures are not all the same and others think because the RPT do or say something it is correct and copy. If they understood the system they would know.
On the other side of the coin, many pilots talk far too much, which in itself shows a degree of ignorance of how it is all meant to work. Another failure of the training schools/departments.
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BTW, am I the only one who thinks that a guy who regularly flies a C150 from Barwon Heads to King Island is a bit of a legend? He's a bolder man than me!
No, its not just you, I definitely wouldn't do it..!!
While we're on the topic of the guy and his C150 perhaps CASA need to look into his W&B and fuel planning. He is always two up and that thing has an O-320.
What are you getting at here tyrone..? Do you know the people involved..? A C150 can easily make it that far without being overloaded. Even with a headwind its only going to take him about 1.5hrs + 45min reserve = 135mins. If he has long range tanks, tabs fuel will give him around 200-220mins (from memory) and provided he and his passenger aren't chubsters, they won't be overloaded. If they are a bit on the 'solid' side, they can take less fuel and still make it comfortably.
No, its not just you, I definitely wouldn't do it..!!
While we're on the topic of the guy and his C150 perhaps CASA need to look into his W&B and fuel planning. He is always two up and that thing has an O-320.
What are you getting at here tyrone..? Do you know the people involved..? A C150 can easily make it that far without being overloaded. Even with a headwind its only going to take him about 1.5hrs + 45min reserve = 135mins. If he has long range tanks, tabs fuel will give him around 200-220mins (from memory) and provided he and his passenger aren't chubsters, they won't be overloaded. If they are a bit on the 'solid' side, they can take less fuel and still make it comfortably.
Last edited by IFEZ; 3rd Aug 2016 at 07:53. Reason: Adjusted line spacing
Let's pile on to the C150 pilot.
I'd be scared to do what he's been doing, therefore it follows that it's dangerous and illegal. If it's not illegal, CASA should make some rules to make it illegal, because it scares me.
I'd be scared to do what he's been doing, therefore it follows that it's dangerous and illegal. If it's not illegal, CASA should make some rules to make it illegal, because it scares me.
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Agree lead balloon, lets pile more and more rules and regulations into the nanny state. Let's take more and more personal responsibility from the individual. The less you have to think for yourself the happier you'll be.
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Remember: donot scratch your arse until you have written approval and have paid the appropriate fee.
I have experienced what Old Akro observes. As a lowly PPL transiting Avalon, Centre asks something like "XYZ your position?" I answer: "Over the salt works, tracking for Point Henry". Response: "range and bearing from Avalon please, our screens don't have topography".
BTW, am I the only one who thinks that a guy who regularly flies a C150 from Barwon Heads to King Island is a bit of a legend? He's a bolder man than me!
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The only landmarks ATC, or IFR pilots are likely to know are those marked as entry/exit points on a VTC (or whatever acronym maps we have now)
