Hung Parliament - lost opportunity for reform?

[Sunfish]

Lookleft, only the naive, foolish or stupid expect to play politics by Marquis of Queensberry rules and win. It is physically, logically and intellectually impossible to create a policy platform, let alone an economic strategy, that does not encompass winners and unfortunately losers. As professor Isiah Berlin explained even perfect solutions to problems inevitably father more problems. We are dealing with choices of evils at all times.

The aviation industry is as entitled as anyone else to ask for exactly what it wants without consideration of its effects on others. Whether we the get what we asked for is then a question of politics - what is the political costs and benefits of helping GA vs. not helping GA?

AOPA and all the alphabet soup of associations have spent at least Fifteen years quietly, artfully, accurately and with great patience spelled out the economic benefits to politicians of supporting GA, with exactly Zero success. It is now time to explain and implement measures that increase the political costs of NOT supporting GA. A negative election campaign targeted on marginal seats is the preferred method of applying political pain since sugared enticements have absolutely and totally failed.

To put that another way that I still don't expect you to understand' we have tried Fifteen years of "carrot" that failed. It is now time to try "stick".

[Lookleft]

So the ends justifies the means Sunfish. Well done on articulating why politicians treat the voting public with such contempt if you are an example of a typical constituent. You keep talking in terms of we yet I don't see you putting your name to anything. You expect others to do the heavy lifting to start and maintain your morally corrupt campaign of targeting politicians in marginal seats. Why don't you at least have the courage ( I forgot you were once a businessman and a consultant) to state which marginal electorate you live in that this scheme would work? When are you going to understand that politicians and the voting public do not care and are not interested in general aviation as an electoral issue.

[Flying Binghi]

Heh, Dick Smith is bringing 'attention' to Oz aviation with his helicopter rescue bid for Julian Assange..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ONzuPKED5qc

Of relevance to politics... Apparently Assange has the dirt on hillary clinton..
...and if ya believe the blogger world there's the miss-information campaign that google has been running against Assange........and isn't illerys close freind al gore tied up with google..

This is gonna be...


Some see it a little differently... http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegr.../#commentsmore





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[Sunfish]

lookleft = pollyanna

I live in Indi - we already elected an independent. You however have got me thinking. How hard would it be to write a position paper and self help strategy that any voluntary group of pilots could implement in their own electorates? Then we don't need a national institution to do that.

basically, all pilots should support independents all the time and encourage others to do the same.

It matters not who they are or what they stand for - just as long as they are NOT LIBERAL OR LABOR and most importantly, both parties understand that no aviation industry participant or their families, friends and relations will ever again vote for a major unless they build a constructive aviation policy.

This situation is to continue until one or both major parties hurts enough that they embrace and execute a policy of aviation regulatory reform.

"hurting" you say? remember the fable of the lion and the gnat? how many votes are pivotal in those last six seats?

"businessman and consultant"? why yes, with some modest success. how about you Lookleft?

[Flying Binghi]

via mcgrath50:
Binghi, it's not difficult to understand mate. The science and models are turning out correct if not worse. The whole point of climate change is that some areas will get drier, some will get wetter. But overall the planet will warm (hence why global warming became a popular term). Most worryingly is there will be an increase in extreme weather events, droughts, storms, hurricanes etc. The computer models are NOT being proven wrong. In fact they are being proven to have been too optimistic.

One of the few policies of One Nation I welcome is the inquiry into climate science. It will be a quick and simple, open and shut inquiry. It WILL come back that climate change is real and we should have started acting at least 10 years ago. And I look forward to all you idiotic boomers admitting you were wrong and letting go of your ridiculous conspiracy theories. Just like you all did with wind turbines... oh wait.

mcgrath50, please do show us a reference to this "correct" climate computer model. And as you are claiming it were a predictive model then you also need to prove that it were closed out, i.e. no recent data modifications, within say the last 20 years. I'm looking foward to looking at the first 'correct' climate model in existance...

"increase in extreme weather events"... what increase? Please provide a credible reference.

mcgrath50, unless I see some sort of a credible reference I'll take it that yer 'pulling my leg'..


Heh, and as to finding a credible climate model...

"Surface air temperatures, as measured at weather stations across Australia, are routinely remodeled through a process of homogenization. After the remodeling of approximately 100 individual temperature series, various area weightings are applied to these individual series, then the average annual temperature is calculated for each state and territory, the entire continent, and used to report climate change.

Issues of concern are the process of homogenization, the choice of stations, the way the homogenized data series are combined, and whether this provides an accurate representation of the historic temperature record for Australia.

There has been no independent assessment of this methodology. I made a request for the same in a letter to Grant Hehir, Auditor-General of Australia, with supporting information on 11th November 2015. This requested was rejected without any consideration of the evidence. I used Rutherglen as a case study, and queried the rational for dropping down temperatures in the early part of the Rutherglen record when their had been no site move or equipment change. These adjustments turned a slight cooling trend in the minimum temperatures as recorded at Rutherglen, into dramatic warming, as illustrated in this chart..."
Continues...

Auditor-General Dismisses Need for Scrutiny of Bureau's Homogenization Methodology - Jennifer Marohasy

So a cooling trend is modified to a warming trend. Smells of corruption to me and that enquiry One Nation is calling for is long overdue..





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[Flying Binghi]

Sunfish, which Oz political party leader has flown in an experimental catagory aircraft ?





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[Lookleft]

Sunfish if I am Pollyanna you are definitely Walter Mitty! For some reason only known to yourself you think that you are a great political strategist who is the only person to have the knowledge and experience to save GA! For a start its not a hung parliament so there goes your "big idea" from the start. Secondly you think there is enough votes from the GA fraternity to make a difference to any political parties policy on aviation.Take your independent in Indi. You think that if every aviation minded person stated they would vote for her if she had a platform for reforming aviation and she told the government she would not support their agenda if they didn't fix CASA- then the party in government would go weak at the knees and give in! Your fantasy land knows no bounds if that is the case. You're incorrect (yes you are wrong Sunfish-again)regarding the fable of the lion and the gnat. The fable is about the lion and the mouse. The lion representing the major parties and them being ensnared in the net of parliamentary procedures and their inability to do what they want. The mouse represents the independents who assist the lion and help set it free. The lesson for dimwitted ex-consultants is by helping each other you get what you want. Democratic fantasy, possibly, but it is a more likely outcome than your ridiculous notion.

[rutan around]

Flying Binghi & Lookleft,

Your political views make you sound insane.

[Lookleft]

Your political views make you sound insane

And your contribution is .......

[Sunfish]

Lookleft:

secondly you think there is enough votes from the GA fraternity to make a difference to any political parties policy on aviation

You have just demonstrated you don't understand what a negative campaign is all about. It's not about our votes, it's about getting other voters mad mad enough at incumbents not to vote for them. Do you understand this? We work to motivate others NOT To Vote For incumbents who wonT support aviaition reform.

We don't have to sell aviaition reform to the voters at all, what we have to sell them is a good reason that may not even be aviation related NOT to vote for our target.

Shakes head.

[Lookleft]

Rutan around thinks I'm insane! No wonder I don't understand it, its the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. Start a negative campaign about someone in the aim of making them support something that they don't even know they are supporting because an insignificant minority may not vote for them. I'll stick to professional aviation Sunfish because the world of the businessman and consultant is delusional at best and morally bankrupt at its core.

[Sunfish]

still doesn't understand.........

GA people are indeed an insignificant minority.

The idea is to motivate a significant fraction of the electorate NOT to vote for the incumbent.

Blackmail? Why yes, certainly! Do you think, like Pollyanna, that people who think only good things get elected?? The GA industry has been sweet reason for fifteen years and has zero to show for it! Time to make like the CFMEU and united firefighters union.........and don't fall for the trap of being too "professional" to do a little arm twisting.

[Lookleft]

You give someone enough rope........

[Arm out the window]

I've been accused of being like Pollyanna by Sunfish too, Lookleft, whose operating method is basically to state his own case as if it's unassailable fact and then use put-downs in practically all further 'discussion'.

None of you get it...

Oh, the humanity!

[rutan around]

Lookleft asks " And your contribution is ..............?"

Well for a start this from another thread on this forum.

I think we all start off with that touchy feely view that that no organization can be as bad as some of the old hard bitten pilots among us make out. We feel that common sense and mutual respect will resolve any differences we might have about how to solve problems as they arrive.

Slowly the realization comes to all of us, some sooner than others, that we are not dealing with sane, reasonable people.

Both the upper management of CASA and the Politicians who are supposed to guide the organization are nothing more than overpaid self serving bludgers who think that the whole now rotten edifice exists solely to feed their overblown egos and keep them in their high and mighty lifestyle.

We have seen over the last 6 weeks a fairly strong move to bring about change. I personally have been to 5 meetings and spoken one on one with 8 different current politicians. Result? Half arsed promises from both sides and a winge about being finger pointed at Tamworth - Poor little petals.
They JUST don't care about 1/2 a billion $$$$$ being wasted on unusable idiotic rules or about hundreds of job losses and the potential for that to become thousands.

I am now of the opinion that we will only bring about change if we take loud and drastic action. We should announce that as of a certain date we are dumping CASA rules and adopting New Zealand's rules whether CASA likes it or not.

Then let the pollies and CASA explain why we should keep our rules when NZ has a similar safety record and a thriving Aviation Industry for a fraction of our costs and a fraction of our red tape.

I wonder how many aviation people who dearly would like to see change in the management of Aviation actually got off their backsides and spoke to even one current or aspiring politician.
If every reader of p-prune had made the effort to make at least one contact before the election the politicians may have thought that at least it was worthwhile making some sort of reform statement and could crow about how they would save the aviation industry money in these times of fiscal crisis blah blah blah..........

I guess I must also be insane to believe that the majority my fellow aviators would ever do any more than winge to each other about the demise of GA.

I'm probably even more insane in thinking the politicians would ever do anything about fixing the current situation purely because it would be the right thing to do and good for the country.

I think Sunny has the right idea. Kick them in their majority.

[Lookleft]

Rutan just for the record I did go and speak to my local pollie after the Senate inquiry and got a nothing response as he was a left wing Labor type with no interest in aviation.He is still the local member with in increased majority because the Libs put a no neck numbskull in as a candidate.

You think Sunny has the right idea but with this statement:

I'm probably even more insane in thinking the politicians would ever do anything about fixing the current situation purely because it would be the right thing to do and good for the country.

he would immediately put you in the Pollyanna camp.

I guess I must also be insane to believe that the majority my fellow aviators would ever do any more than winge to each other about the demise of GA.

That doesn't make you insane but it does state quite clearly what the problem is. Sunny with all his rhetoric doesn't actually want to do anything himself he just wants to ponce about using the royal"We" as in "we should do something and I have the most brilliant of ideas". He has stated in other threads that he considers industry groups a complete waste of time even though they are the aviators getting off their backsides. The only problem that I can see is that there are too many industry groups and if they lobbied as one group then they could make some progress. But there you go that might be just Pollyanna talking.

[Sunfish]

the trouble with pilots is that a certain amount of ego is a requirement for successful aviation, as it is with barristers and surgeons. in my opinion this is antithetical to the construction of effective representative associations, as seems to be demonstrated by the regular conniptions in AOPA,RAA,etc.

perhaps it is possible to get agreement on what we don't want however at my age I'm doing it from an armchair. I've done it before - creating an industry association out of warring tribes and I don't need the stress again. happy. to tell you again how Idid it.

[Arm out the window]

the trouble with pilots is that a certain amount of ego is a requirement for successful aviation, as it is with barristers and surgeons.

Absolute unsubstantiated rubbish. All kinds of personality types are represented in the pilot group.

[thorn bird]

"The only problem that I can see is that there are too many industry groups and if they lobbied as one group then they could make some progress".

Never a truer word was spoken, but I fear its too late.

With the current DAS deluding himself that the industry is in good shape, completely contrary to overwhelming evidence that it isn't, I am of a mind that regardless of what the industry does it is doomed, he'll never accept he has failed miserably, the pollies will simply believe what they are fed by their mandarins, the DAS will probably get a knighthood for services to the aviation industry. The industry itself can repair to the nursing home, cry in its beer, argue over pedantic's and reminisce on what might have been.

[Lookleft]

Thanks for the affirmation TB

Never a truer word was spoken, but I fear its too late.

As for this:

the trouble with pilots is that a certain amount of ego is a requirement for successful aviation, as it is with barristers and surgeons.

What can you say other than to include this statement as an example of what a real egomaniac looks like:

I've done it before - creating an industry association out of warring tribes and I don't need the stress again. happy. to tell you again how Idid it.