A good reminder to always treat props as 'live'
Question without notice. If an aircraft flat battery is discovered, is it possible to undertake a "jump Start" from a car if one is handy, rather than taking the risk of becoming a one-armed wall paper hangar?
Jump starting is not risk free either. You had better know what the aircraft's battery voltage is, what terminal is connected to earth (airframe) and what jumper lead goes where and in what order. And as AB notes, if you have to have e.g. a cowl panel open or removed and the cover removed from the battery box, what's the plan to get them back on/closed? Note also that there's going to be a fair bit of wind and vibration - could be very bad if a jumper lead shakes/blows loose and touches the wrong thing in the engine bay ...
(Note too that some aircraft have auxiliary power sockets. A much better solution, if available. The POH will explain the correct procedure for using it.)
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There's a whole bunch of GA airplanes which fly quite nicely without any of that.
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The aforementioned DC-6 had an ignition boost similar to "shower of sparks" except that it was controlled by a separate switch. You could start the engines without using the ignition boost, which is the equivalent of starting without an impulse coupling.
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Aussie Bob mentioned runaways...
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...ey-1955-a.html
Great aeroplanes these Austers!
Kaz
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...ey-1955-a.html
Great aeroplanes these Austers!
Kaz
A very fine Chapter in the illustrious history of the RAAF! 
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Ever started an AN2?
"The aforementioned DC-6 had an ignition boost similar to "shower of sparks" except that it was controlled by a separate switch. You could start the engines without using the ignition boost, which is the equivalent of starting without an impulse coupling."
Not a 1 hand job.
"The aforementioned DC-6 had an ignition boost similar to "shower of sparks" except that it was controlled by a separate switch. You could start the engines without using the ignition boost, which is the equivalent of starting without an impulse coupling."
Not a 1 hand job.
"(Note too that some aircraft have auxiliary power sockets. A much better solution, if available. The POH will explain the correct procedure for using it.)"
I seem to remember, a while back, seeing how this jump starting is done on a GA8 Airvan. IIRC, somewhere in the S.A. outback...
I was there helping. 
I seem to remember, a while back, seeing how this jump starting is done on a GA8 Airvan. IIRC, somewhere in the S.A. outback...
I was there helping.
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At around 30 years in the game, I do not recall a person coming to me saying I hand started to get here can you fix it.
I do know more than a handful that have attempted and started but failed to do lets say controlled flight, then asked the insurance company to ask me to fix it.
If possible yes jump start or charge battery - never will I suggest a hand swing. I certainly never will do one.
I do know more than a handful that have attempted and started but failed to do lets say controlled flight, then asked the insurance company to ask me to fix it.
If possible yes jump start or charge battery - never will I suggest a hand swing. I certainly never will do one.
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I hand started the left engine (260hp) of a Bongo van one time when stuck on the wrong side of the Owen Stanleys one Friday afternoon. Posted here about it once.
Also hand started a 235hp Lycoming in a Pawnee a few times.
Glad I was taught how to do it safely but do not care if I never have to repeat the procedure.
Also hand started a 235hp Lycoming in a Pawnee a few times.
Glad I was taught how to do it safely but do not care if I never have to repeat the procedure.
never will I suggest a hand swing. I certainly never will do one.
Judging by some of the replies on this thread, it has become a badge of honour to scorn the risk.
Or ....
The objective risks are understood, and those risks are adequately mitigated by proper systems knowledge and implementation of proper procedures.
Maybe one day you'll be out in the middle of nowhere, and get dropped back a your aircraft, kilometres from the nearest civilisation, on a Sunday, and realise the aircraft's battery is nearly dead because you didn't notice the map light in the cockpit was accidentally left on when you tied her down two days ago. When that happens, I assure you that you will rue the fact that you did not learn how to swing the prop safely.
But I hope it never happens to you.
The objective risks are understood, and those risks are adequately mitigated by proper systems knowledge and implementation of proper procedures.
Maybe one day you'll be out in the middle of nowhere, and get dropped back a your aircraft, kilometres from the nearest civilisation, on a Sunday, and realise the aircraft's battery is nearly dead because you didn't notice the map light in the cockpit was accidentally left on when you tied her down two days ago. When that happens, I assure you that you will rue the fact that you did not learn how to swing the prop safely.
But I hope it never happens to you.
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The post to which I referred;
As lead Balloon said; ''But I hope it never happens to you."
But what if the scenario he outlined in his post above actually does occur?
When I started my first job in PNG with DZ; after doing the endorsement on the BN2 the Chief Pilot raised an interesting scenario.
"You're on a bush strip the other side of the Owen Stanleys and it's near enough to 'beer o clock on a Friday afternoon so all you want to do is get back to Moresby for the Friday night BBQ and have a few drinks and the starter motor on an engine goes u/s.......what do you do?
He then proceeded to demonstrate how to hand start the BN2's 260hp Lycomings. Brakes on, engine primed with both mags on and throttle fully closed. It fired on about the third swing.
Around 18 months later and with another company in PNG one Friday afternoon about 1630hrs local I found myself in precisely that situation!!!! I set everything up as I had been shown and started swinging, much to the amusement of the locals who were lined up along the side of the strip pointing and laughing at the 'long long balus man.' At somewhere around the 16th or 17th swing away it went and about 3 minutes later I was airborne and climbing for 9500' to slip through the gap back to PY leaving behind a strangely silent mob of villagers whom were busy picking their jaws off the ground!
"You're on a bush strip the other side of the Owen Stanleys and it's near enough to 'beer o clock on a Friday afternoon so all you want to do is get back to Moresby for the Friday night BBQ and have a few drinks and the starter motor on an engine goes u/s.......what do you do?
He then proceeded to demonstrate how to hand start the BN2's 260hp Lycomings. Brakes on, engine primed with both mags on and throttle fully closed. It fired on about the third swing.
Around 18 months later and with another company in PNG one Friday afternoon about 1630hrs local I found myself in precisely that situation!!!! I set everything up as I had been shown and started swinging, much to the amusement of the locals who were lined up along the side of the strip pointing and laughing at the 'long long balus man.' At somewhere around the 16th or 17th swing away it went and about 3 minutes later I was airborne and climbing for 9500' to slip through the gap back to PY leaving behind a strangely silent mob of villagers whom were busy picking their jaws off the ground!
But what if the scenario he outlined in his post above actually does occur?
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A fine line in training at times. Often it is the Bendix drive not the starter MOTOR that fails on a BN2. Some times they will fail in a nasty way, seen more than 1 cracked lyco case due jammed bendix.
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Band a Lot; In the event I described there was no doubt as to the problem. I hit the starter, heard it spin but the prop did not move!. It failed to engage.
And so.....
And so.....
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You were lucky the bendix didn't engage. In your case it sounds like the bendix drive pin may have sheared.
I have had similar in an Islander and there was no-way you could safely swing it with the starter bendix engaged. In the event I removed and probably replaced the starter, I can't recall swinging the prop to get the start. Again I was in the wops but as a LAME/CPL I was being paid for the skills anyway.
Most pilots can't get their head around the left mag only selected on for a start, well for hand propping. You need to know the type of ignition boosters you have fitted, ie the number of impulse couplings or shower of sparks etc.
No-one needs to be swinging a prop with an advanced mag still live.
Anyone even contemplating swinging a prop has to be confident only the retarded spark is active !
If you can't guarantee that then only a mug would be touching the prop blades. I have heard some rationale that the slow spinning mag doesn't produce enough of a spark to be an issue.... 24 degrees before TDC is a long way to go all the same. The prop WILL come back..
(If that spark proved to be sufficient).
Some Islanders and Trislanders still have the couplings, and generally on the left mag.
I have had similar in an Islander and there was no-way you could safely swing it with the starter bendix engaged. In the event I removed and probably replaced the starter, I can't recall swinging the prop to get the start. Again I was in the wops but as a LAME/CPL I was being paid for the skills anyway.
Most pilots can't get their head around the left mag only selected on for a start, well for hand propping. You need to know the type of ignition boosters you have fitted, ie the number of impulse couplings or shower of sparks etc.
No-one needs to be swinging a prop with an advanced mag still live.
Anyone even contemplating swinging a prop has to be confident only the retarded spark is active !
If you can't guarantee that then only a mug would be touching the prop blades. I have heard some rationale that the slow spinning mag doesn't produce enough of a spark to be an issue.... 24 degrees before TDC is a long way to go all the same. The prop WILL come back..
(If that spark proved to be sufficient).
Some Islanders and Trislanders still have the couplings, and generally on the left mag.
Last edited by baron_beeza; 13th Jan 2016 at 12:00.
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"You were lucky the bendix didn't engage. In your case it sounds like the bendix drive pin may have sheared."
A sheared pin is a fully floating bendix drive head, nose down attitude it is possible to engage the flywheel.
And so I don't. TCM "generally" when starter spins but not prop is "safer" to hand start than a Lyco for mechanical reasons. A Friday arvo beer has killed many a willing highly trained pilot from experts that will never pass a LAME test, by fly real well.
A sheared pin is a fully floating bendix drive head, nose down attitude it is possible to engage the flywheel.
And so I don't. TCM "generally" when starter spins but not prop is "safer" to hand start than a Lyco for mechanical reasons. A Friday arvo beer has killed many a willing highly trained pilot from experts that will never pass a LAME test, by fly real well.
Last edited by Band a Lot; 14th Jan 2016 at 08:11.
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
Lets be clear, if on a TCM or LYC piston engine you hear a wizz sound but propeller does not move. Your starter motor is working fine. You have another issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That needs to be confirmed before you think it is a great idea to hand start.
It seems the folk that have done here seem lucky, not well informed or WELL INSTRUCTED at all.
But I hope you are never in that position - I have been, I wait for the rescue team and rink beer on the Monday if need be.
Lets be clear, if on a TCM or LYC piston engine you hear a wizz sound but propeller does not move. Your starter motor is working fine. You have another issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That needs to be confirmed before you think it is a great idea to hand start.
It seems the folk that have done here seem lucky, not well informed or WELL INSTRUCTED at all.
But I hope you are never in that position - I have been, I wait for the rescue team and rink beer on the Monday if need be.
