Reckless flying charge for pilot who ditched ultra-light plane in Bass Strait
Thread Starter
Reckless flying charge for pilot who ditched ultra-light plane in Bass Strait
If one takes news reports on face value and believes them then this article Reckless flying charge for pilot who ditched ultra-light plane in Bass Strait - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) contains a previously unheard of 'offence' that will virtually close every flying club in the country.
This luckless pilot has amongst other things been charged with
If that is the actual wording of the charge then whoever drafted that charge hasn't a clue about what they are doing and demonstrates the standard of "model litigant" that is CAsA.
Be warned folks as it would appear as though it is now an offence (and naturally, strict liability to avoid a messy factual defence) to have a beer after finishing flying for the day.
Who writes this stuff
CC
This luckless pilot has amongst other things been charged with
consuming alcohol within eight hours of flying an aircraft
Be warned folks as it would appear as though it is now an offence (and naturally, strict liability to avoid a messy factual defence) to have a beer after finishing flying for the day.
Who writes this stuff
CC
8 hours bottle-to-throttle and or less than .02 BAC 
Personally I've never heard of a conviction on the 8 hour rule, but that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened before or can't happen, even if you were 0.0 BAC.
Once we know the background for the "reckless flying" charge, we would better be able to comment on the whole package.
Well it is and always has been if you are starting work less than 8 hours after your last beer.
Personally I've never heard of a conviction on the 8 hour rule, but that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened before or can't happen, even if you were 0.0 BAC.
Once we know the background for the "reckless flying" charge, we would better be able to comment on the whole package.
it is now an offence to have a beer after finishing flying for the day.
Presumably the drinking charge is for drinking within 8 hours prior to flying. Media may have missed that aspect, I highly doubt that your quoted text is the way the actual charge is written!
Who writes this stuff you ask? Journalists.
You also didn't mention the charge for flying without a license.
Sounds fairly serious, if true.
Who writes this stuff you ask? Journalists.
You also didn't mention the charge for flying without a license.
Sounds fairly serious, if true.
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Going out on a limb here, I'd be thinking that the
would be consuming alcohol (BEFORE) flight and not after.
DIVOSH
(Oh. Ramrod beat me to it)
consuming alcohol within eight hours of flying an aircraft
DIVOSH
(Oh. Ramrod beat me to it)
Last edited by Di_Vosh; 8th Dec 2015 at 23:24. Reason: Added bit
You also didn't mention the charge for flying without a license.
So my questions are:
1. Is having an engine failure reckless?
1. Is having an engine failure reckless?
2. If the engine hadn't failed and the pilot had made it home, would it still be reckless?
Generally you are only reckless when something goes wrong / bad and everyone finds out and you get caught out.
1. Is having an engine failure reckless?
If, hypothetically, you took off without checking the oil and, had you done so, you would have found the sump empty because the drain was not fitted .... If, hypothetically, you took off without checking the fuel and, had you done so, you would have found mostly air in the tanks ... If, hypothetically, you took off on an over-water flight in a single engine recreationally-registered aircraft with no life jackets or life rafts ...
2. If the engine hadn't failed and the pilot had made it home, would it still be reckless?
Thread Starter
The wording of
is suitably ambiguous.
We all know the 8hr between bottle and throttle means BEFORE you go flying.
The wording does not say that, it does not differentiate between before or after flight. It just says within 8 hours of flying.
On the given wording one could have the charge levelled at one for having a drink after flight.
As I said originally, it is either a poorly thought out/worded charge by CAsA or the ABC writer has mucked up the reporting.
Both scenarios are equally plausible.
CC
consuming alcohol within eight hours of flying an aircraft
We all know the 8hr between bottle and throttle means BEFORE you go flying.
The wording does not say that, it does not differentiate between before or after flight. It just says within 8 hours of flying.
On the given wording one could have the charge levelled at one for having a drink after flight.
As I said originally, it is either a poorly thought out/worded charge by CAsA or the ABC writer has mucked up the reporting.
Both scenarios are equally plausible.
CC
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sadly its true, you can get done for drinking 8 hrs after a flight, if there is an incident..
https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2...#_Toc429650292
https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2...#_Toc429650292
(3) Suitable test conditions means conditions that exist after an accident or serious incident if:
(a) testing can be conducted within:
(i) for drug testing—32 hours after the accident or incident occurred; and
(ii) for alcohol testing—8 hours after the accident or incident occurred; and
(b) it is practicable to conduct a test.
(a) testing can be conducted within:
(i) for drug testing—32 hours after the accident or incident occurred; and
(ii) for alcohol testing—8 hours after the accident or incident occurred; and
(b) it is practicable to conduct a test.
Moderator
CIVIL AVIATION REGULATIONS 1988 - REG 256
Intoxicated persons not to act as pilots etc or be carried on aircraft
(1) A person shall not, while in a state of intoxication, enter any aircraft.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
(2) A person acting as a member of the operating crew of an aircraft, or carried in the aircraft to act as a member of the operating crew, shall not, while so acting or carried, be in a state in which, by reason of his or her having consumed, used, or absorbed any alcoholic liquor, drug, pharmaceutical or medicinal preparation or other substance, his or her capacity so to act is impaired.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(3) A person shall not act as, or perform any duties or functions preparatory to acting as, a member of the operating crew of an aircraft if the person has, during the period of 8 hours immediately preceding the departure of the aircraft consumed any alcoholic liquor.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(4) A person who is on board an aircraft as a member of the operating crew, or as a person carried in the aircraft for the purpose of acting as a member of the operating crew, shall not consume any alcoholic liquor.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(5) A person shall not, while acting in any capacity in either air traffic control or Flight Service, be in a state in which, by reason of his or her having consumed, used, or absorbed any alcoholic liquor, drug, pharmaceutical or medicinal preparation or other substance, his or her capacity so to act is impaired.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(6) A person shall not act in any capacity in either air traffic control or Flight Service if the person has, during the period of 8 hours immediately preceding the commencement of the period of duty in which he or she so acts, consumed any alcoholic liquor.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(7) A person who is on duty in either air traffic control or Flight Service shall not consume any alcoholic liquor.
Penalty for a contravention of this subregulation: 50 penalty units.
(8) An offence against subregulation (1), (2), (3), (4), (5), (6) or (7) is an offence of strict liability.
Note: For strict liability , see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code .
Intoxicated persons not to act as pilots etc or be carried on aircraft
(1) A person shall not, while in a state of intoxication, enter any aircraft.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
(2) A person acting as a member of the operating crew of an aircraft, or carried in the aircraft to act as a member of the operating crew, shall not, while so acting or carried, be in a state in which, by reason of his or her having consumed, used, or absorbed any alcoholic liquor, drug, pharmaceutical or medicinal preparation or other substance, his or her capacity so to act is impaired.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(3) A person shall not act as, or perform any duties or functions preparatory to acting as, a member of the operating crew of an aircraft if the person has, during the period of 8 hours immediately preceding the departure of the aircraft consumed any alcoholic liquor.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(4) A person who is on board an aircraft as a member of the operating crew, or as a person carried in the aircraft for the purpose of acting as a member of the operating crew, shall not consume any alcoholic liquor.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(5) A person shall not, while acting in any capacity in either air traffic control or Flight Service, be in a state in which, by reason of his or her having consumed, used, or absorbed any alcoholic liquor, drug, pharmaceutical or medicinal preparation or other substance, his or her capacity so to act is impaired.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(6) A person shall not act in any capacity in either air traffic control or Flight Service if the person has, during the period of 8 hours immediately preceding the commencement of the period of duty in which he or she so acts, consumed any alcoholic liquor.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(7) A person who is on duty in either air traffic control or Flight Service shall not consume any alcoholic liquor.
Penalty for a contravention of this subregulation: 50 penalty units.
(8) An offence against subregulation (1), (2), (3), (4), (5), (6) or (7) is an offence of strict liability.
Note: For strict liability , see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code .
Interesting (and odd).
So the reg doesn't prohibit you from doing e.g. a pre-flight inspection e.g. 6 hours after the bottle, provided the aircraft doesn't depart until at least 2 hours after the inspection (and you're not impaired during the inspection).
Am I reading that correctly?
(Not that I think doing so would be a good idea. I also anticipate that there'll be some other rule e.g. compliance with ops manual that prohibits it.)
So the reg doesn't prohibit you from doing e.g. a pre-flight inspection e.g. 6 hours after the bottle, provided the aircraft doesn't depart until at least 2 hours after the inspection (and you're not impaired during the inspection).
Am I reading that correctly?
(Not that I think doing so would be a good idea. I also anticipate that there'll be some other rule e.g. compliance with ops manual that prohibits it.)
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Interesting (and odd).
So the reg doesn't prohibit you from doing e.g. a pre-flight inspection e.g. 6 hours after the bottle, provided the aircraft doesn't depart until at least 2 hours after the inspection (and you're not impaired during the inspection).
Am I reading that correctly?
(Not that I think doing so would be a good idea. I also anticipate that there'll be some other rule e.g. compliance with ops manual that prohibits it.)
So the reg doesn't prohibit you from doing e.g. a pre-flight inspection e.g. 6 hours after the bottle, provided the aircraft doesn't depart until at least 2 hours after the inspection (and you're not impaired during the inspection).
Am I reading that correctly?
(Not that I think doing so would be a good idea. I also anticipate that there'll be some other rule e.g. compliance with ops manual that prohibits it.)
Kaz
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Victoria
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sadly its true, you can get done for drinking 8 hrs after a flight, if there is an incident..
https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2...#_Toc429650292
Quote:
(3) Suitable test conditions means conditions that exist after an accident or serious incident if:
(a) testing can be conducted within:
(i) for drug testing—32 hours after the accident or incident occurred; and
(ii) for alcohol testing—8 hours after the accident or incident occurred; and
(b) it is practicable to conduct a test.
https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2...#_Toc429650292
Quote:
(3) Suitable test conditions means conditions that exist after an accident or serious incident if:
(a) testing can be conducted within:
(i) for drug testing—32 hours after the accident or incident occurred; and
(ii) for alcohol testing—8 hours after the accident or incident occurred; and
(b) it is practicable to conduct a test.
However, if you are caught in a roadside PBT in Victoria and then required to attend a testing station which gives a reading over the limit you will be charged with both driving while exceeding PCA and with having a PCA above the limit within 3 hours of driving. The first will be withdrawn and they will proceed on the second.
If you have an accident and go home without being tested, they can come to your home and test and charge you with charge 2 up to 3 hours after the accident.
Kaz
My guess is the alcohol charge is based solely on the pilots own admission.
My guess is that the charge of reckless flying is only because there is no charge for being stupid.
My guess is the good judge will chuck most of it out and the fine will be nominal.
I guess we wait until judgement day to find out if my guesses are correct
My guess is that the charge of reckless flying is only because there is no charge for being stupid.
My guess is the good judge will chuck most of it out and the fine will be nominal.
I guess we wait until judgement day to find out if my guesses are correct
But kaz, if my departure is 8 hours and 1 minute after the bottle, what prohibits me from doing unimpaired preparatory work as crew e.g. 1 hour before that departure?
If my departure is more than 8 hours after the bottle, the criterion on which operation of the entire prohibition in (3) depends is not satisfied.
But I may be misreading it.
If my departure is more than 8 hours after the bottle, the criterion on which operation of the entire prohibition in (3) depends is not satisfied.
But I may be misreading it.