GA Airports in rapid decline and where is AOPA?
Thread Starter
GA Airports in rapid decline and where is AOPA?
How is it that the once vibrant GA airports around Australia recieve regular and repeated threats to their future viability & longevity, and there's not a word of response from AOPA publicly?
No media releases, no pilot 'activism' campaigns, no alternative proposal interviews...... to the best of my knowledge, nothing!
With civil infrastructure projects taking off everywhere in Australia this is the time to push for a place that secures these locations for the future.
AOPA USA
Through AOPA staff, a network of seven regional managers, and a corps of 2,500 Airport Support Network volunteers, AOPA advocates for its members at the state and local level to:
Compared to..........
AOPA Australia
Aviation Regulation
Working in partnership with industry regulatory bodies to achieve sensible outcomes.
Aviation Policy
Lobbying Federal and State governments and ministers for changes to aviation policy.
AOPA in Action
Advocacy is AOPA’s primary task and was one of the main reasons why AOPA was formed in the first place some 50 years ago. But how do we go about advocating the aviation industry?
The board of directors and the staff of AOPA work tirelessly to build effective relationships with Government representative and ministers that will highlight aviation related issues to those that make decisions.
AOPA also highlight aviation issues in the media through similar contacts.
So the US version sets objectives to achieve (promote, maintain, revent, protect) whereas the Australian version's take on effective advocacy is to simply 'highlight' issues and 'build relationships' with media and politicians. They're not serious, surely.
When are the AOPA going to get out there and publicly defend & secure what remains of Australia's GA airports?
No media releases, no pilot 'activism' campaigns, no alternative proposal interviews...... to the best of my knowledge, nothing!
With civil infrastructure projects taking off everywhere in Australia this is the time to push for a place that secures these locations for the future.
AOPA USA
Through AOPA staff, a network of seven regional managers, and a corps of 2,500 Airport Support Network volunteers, AOPA advocates for its members at the state and local level to:
- Promote, protect, and defend America’s community airports
- Maintain sufficient state and local funding for GA Airports and infrastructure
- Prevent excess state taxation on flying
- Protect general aviation from unnecessary state and local regulation
- View proposed releases of airport property that could impact your local airport
- AOPA's Guide to Communicating with Your Legislator
Compared to..........
AOPA Australia
Aviation Regulation
Working in partnership with industry regulatory bodies to achieve sensible outcomes.
Aviation Policy
Lobbying Federal and State governments and ministers for changes to aviation policy.
AOPA in Action
Advocacy is AOPA’s primary task and was one of the main reasons why AOPA was formed in the first place some 50 years ago. But how do we go about advocating the aviation industry?
The board of directors and the staff of AOPA work tirelessly to build effective relationships with Government representative and ministers that will highlight aviation related issues to those that make decisions.
AOPA also highlight aviation issues in the media through similar contacts.
So the US version sets objectives to achieve (promote, maintain, revent, protect) whereas the Australian version's take on effective advocacy is to simply 'highlight' issues and 'build relationships' with media and politicians. They're not serious, surely.
When are the AOPA going to get out there and publicly defend & secure what remains of Australia's GA airports?
Spot on. A public campaign to raise the profile of GA and encourage all to use and enjoy aviation is needed. It is of interest that the new GA airport planned for SE Qld near Gatton could elicit a formal letter of support from AOPA according to my informant...
To talk about “embarrassing shenanigans” that took place at AOPA nearly 20 years ago, is not the real reason that AOPA is in such problems at the present time. I believe the problems exist because the Minister, the bureaucracy and the two aviation organisations decided to completely ignore AOPA members unless the members supported what the government wanted at that time.
There was a time where at the Annual General Meeting of AOPA, the Minister appeared, I well remember the one at Terrigal with Ros Kelly coming. In the more recent decade, AOPA believed that if they got on side with government that they would get some decent results for their members. Common decency would say this should be so but in fact it wasn’t. It was just a one way ratchet at exploitation by CASA and Airservcies to damage General Aviation, knowing that this would mean a move of passengers to the major airlines – where Airservices make most of their money from and where CASA have a very good relationship in relation to regulation.
When comparing the population of the USA with the population of Australia, AOPA in Australia, if it was comparable with AOPA in the USA should have over 30,000 members. In fact it has less than 3,000 members.
Over the last few years a number of people in AOPA with good intentions, got in bed with Airservices in relation to Australia leading the world with mandatory ADS-B. These well-meaning people loved the technology of ADS-B but didn’t quite understand that normal members of AOPA and small aviation businesses could simply not afford a mandate which was like nothing else on earth. If you have been an airline pilot or if you’re on superannuation funding of $300,000 per year, it’s quite easy to afford ADS-B for your aircraft, however, most AOPA members are not in that position.
AOPA now has a fantastic President in Marc de Stoop and he is going to do everything he can to bring AOPA into a position where it’s a worthwhile organisation that represents General Aviation. We should do everything we can to support him. I have a feeling if we don’t, that the whole General Aviation industry is doomed for a generation or more in this country.
There was a time where at the Annual General Meeting of AOPA, the Minister appeared, I well remember the one at Terrigal with Ros Kelly coming. In the more recent decade, AOPA believed that if they got on side with government that they would get some decent results for their members. Common decency would say this should be so but in fact it wasn’t. It was just a one way ratchet at exploitation by CASA and Airservcies to damage General Aviation, knowing that this would mean a move of passengers to the major airlines – where Airservices make most of their money from and where CASA have a very good relationship in relation to regulation.
When comparing the population of the USA with the population of Australia, AOPA in Australia, if it was comparable with AOPA in the USA should have over 30,000 members. In fact it has less than 3,000 members.
Over the last few years a number of people in AOPA with good intentions, got in bed with Airservices in relation to Australia leading the world with mandatory ADS-B. These well-meaning people loved the technology of ADS-B but didn’t quite understand that normal members of AOPA and small aviation businesses could simply not afford a mandate which was like nothing else on earth. If you have been an airline pilot or if you’re on superannuation funding of $300,000 per year, it’s quite easy to afford ADS-B for your aircraft, however, most AOPA members are not in that position.
AOPA now has a fantastic President in Marc de Stoop and he is going to do everything he can to bring AOPA into a position where it’s a worthwhile organisation that represents General Aviation. We should do everything we can to support him. I have a feeling if we don’t, that the whole General Aviation industry is doomed for a generation or more in this country.
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I just read your post Dick and thought "yeah, I'll get behind them". So I went to their webpage to join up. $160/year 
Maybe I'm out of touch and that's the going rate, I was expecting about half that. I simply can't afford that.
Maybe I'm out of touch and that's the going rate, I was expecting about half that. I simply can't afford that.
Oh dear! Is Regulatory capture rearing its head again? Just as American regulators are frequently captured by the corporations with deep pockets they are supposed to regulate, the reverse can also happen.
By "reverse" I mean the capture of an industry association by a Government. WHat basically happens is that the Government looks for egos that can be stroked and power hungry individuals who will take the bait that the Government offers.
"Bait?" you say? Let me give you some examples:
"The Government would really like to deal with one peak body exclusively .. such as your good selves."
"Individual pilots are so unreasonable, we would like to deal only with a responsible, professional, reasonable, peak body like your selves."
"We think it would be good for us to meet informally every month or less, just to have a few drinks and talk about where we might take aviation,."
"We think it would be a good thing if you met the Minister, we have told him how easy you are to get along with and he values your contribution to our policy development".
"drinks in the private members bar, refreshments in the Ministers conference room, Christmas drinks with the Minister, DAS and Secretary…"
"How about a Government grant for you to run a program for us?"
You get the drift. AOPA then no longer represents its members to the Government, it represents government policy to its members and tries to convince them that its not a turd wrapped in glitter. There is a lure of government power that certain types of people fall for every time. All perfectly legal of course.
How do I know this? Did a bit of it myself from the Government side. The film "Bridge on the River Kwai" sums up what can happen.
By "reverse" I mean the capture of an industry association by a Government. WHat basically happens is that the Government looks for egos that can be stroked and power hungry individuals who will take the bait that the Government offers.
"Bait?" you say? Let me give you some examples:
"The Government would really like to deal with one peak body exclusively .. such as your good selves."
"Individual pilots are so unreasonable, we would like to deal only with a responsible, professional, reasonable, peak body like your selves."
"We think it would be good for us to meet informally every month or less, just to have a few drinks and talk about where we might take aviation,."
"We think it would be a good thing if you met the Minister, we have told him how easy you are to get along with and he values your contribution to our policy development".
"drinks in the private members bar, refreshments in the Ministers conference room, Christmas drinks with the Minister, DAS and Secretary…"
"How about a Government grant for you to run a program for us?"
You get the drift. AOPA then no longer represents its members to the Government, it represents government policy to its members and tries to convince them that its not a turd wrapped in glitter. There is a lure of government power that certain types of people fall for every time. All perfectly legal of course.
How do I know this? Did a bit of it myself from the Government side. The film "Bridge on the River Kwai" sums up what can happen.
I just read your post Dick and thought "yeah, I'll get behind them". So I went to their webpage to join up. $160/year
Maybe I'm out of touch and that's the going rate, I was expecting about half that. I simply can't afford that.
Maybe I'm out of touch and that's the going rate, I was expecting about half that. I simply can't afford that.
The sad tale of AOPA
I like many others am a former member of AOPA. Unfortunately some the embarrassing shenanigans of the mid - late 90s saw members leaving in droves.
In the early 90's they had over 10,000 members. Whilst Dick tried to change the world back then there was little discontent, but later the table got turned upside down, we saw the m/s go from ~$45 to ~$95 overnight, and the numbers drop to under 4,000, in a year or three. The building that they owned in Canberra and their aircraft were sold, and the money got gobbled up on a campaign that did little but embarrass the members left and they too started to walk out the door. Dispite the efforts of various committees since, they have never being able to regain the lost ground.
Never in the history of GA in Australia have we needed a good representative association more than now, but all the efforts of many wise men and woman over the past 20 or so years have failed to bring all the various associations together.
The overthetop egos of some over the past 20 yrs have helped divide the industry more than ever, when all that is required is a good round table discussion with a bit of give and take so that at the end of the day the group can speak strongly as one.
If AOPA were to show that strength and come to the table for the greater good of the industry, we might see the numbers increase? I might even rejoin, but it would have to be good value for money. In today's market and without seeing any runs on the board I suggest $160 is around double what it should be.
Having said that, I remain optimistic...
Last edited by cogwheel; 15th Oct 2015 at 12:38.
Well said, that man!
Thread Starter
Marc de Stoop, I've just read your last two newsletters in the AOPA magazine.
What were you thinking?
What possible benefit will be achieved by publicly expressing the fears, doubts and mistrust you have in CASA, ASA and the Dept of Infrastructure? With respect, those personal views don't belong in a newsletter from the president of a membership in need of achieving substantial and significant reform.
Why have you revealed in such detail your strategies and plans? You understandably may wish to inspire your members, but such a broadcast will easily arm the 'opposition'. Have you not now just simply alerted other parties of a heads up of what's coming, giving those you & the PM need to win over the time to prepare their counter arguments?
It can often be very wise to keep the cards close to the chest.
To be honest, whilst regulatory reform is always important, AOPA Australia must rebuild its place in the Australian aviation scene first and foremost, really, before much else right now. Refresh the website, expand the services and offers to members, become very well known to the general public, re-energise the great story of taking to the skies with family and friends, set and report targets for new members (people attract people) and foster new business confidence in the GA sector.
A growing, vibrant membership & a skilled, on-message communications team and president will then be very effective at influencing the government & the general public to the benefit of a practical, profitable & user friendly GA sector which will benefit the whole of Australia by way of job opportunities, foreign income earnings (tourism & training) and the associated flow on effects to other industries. The power of influence will be very much proportional to the growth, vibrancy, public profile and internal stability of the AOPA.
There's got to be something in it for everyone. Governments need job creation opportunities and AOPA can make that happen. Regulators need to see GA step up with innovation and investment and AOPA needs to build the confidence by talking up the opportunities here in Australia. There is no limit to the ideas and offerings which can be employed to get GA back up to 1980/ 1990's levels.
With so many new designs and technologies coming to market today (ie Tecnam, ICON5 amphib, easier ways to learn to fly etc.) we can be a very prosperous contributor to Australia's future economic transition. Access Economics Delotte just released a report saying industry, not just government, needs to step up to grow our national infrastructure.
In short, AOPA has to first be a real success story in its own right before it can bring about the same for the GA sector in Australia today.
What were you thinking?
What possible benefit will be achieved by publicly expressing the fears, doubts and mistrust you have in CASA, ASA and the Dept of Infrastructure? With respect, those personal views don't belong in a newsletter from the president of a membership in need of achieving substantial and significant reform.
Why have you revealed in such detail your strategies and plans? You understandably may wish to inspire your members, but such a broadcast will easily arm the 'opposition'. Have you not now just simply alerted other parties of a heads up of what's coming, giving those you & the PM need to win over the time to prepare their counter arguments?
It can often be very wise to keep the cards close to the chest.
To be honest, whilst regulatory reform is always important, AOPA Australia must rebuild its place in the Australian aviation scene first and foremost, really, before much else right now. Refresh the website, expand the services and offers to members, become very well known to the general public, re-energise the great story of taking to the skies with family and friends, set and report targets for new members (people attract people) and foster new business confidence in the GA sector.
A growing, vibrant membership & a skilled, on-message communications team and president will then be very effective at influencing the government & the general public to the benefit of a practical, profitable & user friendly GA sector which will benefit the whole of Australia by way of job opportunities, foreign income earnings (tourism & training) and the associated flow on effects to other industries. The power of influence will be very much proportional to the growth, vibrancy, public profile and internal stability of the AOPA.
There's got to be something in it for everyone. Governments need job creation opportunities and AOPA can make that happen. Regulators need to see GA step up with innovation and investment and AOPA needs to build the confidence by talking up the opportunities here in Australia. There is no limit to the ideas and offerings which can be employed to get GA back up to 1980/ 1990's levels.
With so many new designs and technologies coming to market today (ie Tecnam, ICON5 amphib, easier ways to learn to fly etc.) we can be a very prosperous contributor to Australia's future economic transition. Access Economics Delotte just released a report saying industry, not just government, needs to step up to grow our national infrastructure.
In short, AOPA has to first be a real success story in its own right before it can bring about the same for the GA sector in Australia today.
Dick,
Back in the late 1990's, you and AOPA had a fair bit of GA political clout with the new Howard Government. I remember attending the AOPA 'Bush Picnic' at YTEM along with many others. The Minister of transport; John Sharp attended along with National Party leader; Tim Fischer.
You then handed over to Boyd Munro and AOPA became a wasted mess after that..
The Abbott government recently awarded you a thank you trinket which you gladly accepted. So now you have absolutely no influence over the Turnbull government.
Sad and such a real waste.
Back in the late 1990's, you and AOPA had a fair bit of GA political clout with the new Howard Government. I remember attending the AOPA 'Bush Picnic' at YTEM along with many others. The Minister of transport; John Sharp attended along with National Party leader; Tim Fischer.
You then handed over to Boyd Munro and AOPA became a wasted mess after that..
The Abbott government recently awarded you a thank you trinket which you gladly accepted. So now you have absolutely no influence over the Turnbull government.
Sad and such a real waste.
What possible benefit will be achieved by publicly expressing the fears, doubts and mistrust you have in CASA, ASA and the Dept of Infrastructure?
It also shows to me that Mr de Stoop is unlikely to waste his time and the Association's resources having his pockets pissed in by bureaucrats who do not care about the plight of GA, because their bank accounts and super are topped-up every fortnight irrespective of the level of GA activity.
It shows to me that he's more likely to focus the very limited resources and tiny amount of leverage that GA has left to maximum effect (which isn't very much at all, and is why GA's treated like a used tissue).
And please: No stories about the really great people you know in CASA/AA/DOIT. Of course all these organisations have many hard-working, moral exemplars doing their genuine best. However, the whole is much, much less than the sum of these and the other parts.
As I've repeated ad nauseam, unless the GA lobby develops the political power to influence the outcomes of elections in marginal seats at a Federal level, the Government will (rightly) ignore you.
Working with Government with no political power behind you is like dancing with your sister - nothing is going to happen.
American comparisons are slightly misleading because there is no "party" system worth the name and individual candidates are far more responsive to organised community groups than here. AOPA, and of course the NRA, have political clout over there because they can deliver electoral success, or rather they have the muscle to prevent candidates they don't like from getting elected.
GA/AOPA/etc. needs to invest its time and money in
(a) determining which seats are marginal and held by the Federal Government, and
(b) what sort of negative campaign can be operated on the sitting member at the next election.
It is important to understand that the political power of groups in America comes from their ability to prevent election, which is far cheaper than trying to ensure election.
We need to do likewise.
Working with Government with no political power behind you is like dancing with your sister - nothing is going to happen.
American comparisons are slightly misleading because there is no "party" system worth the name and individual candidates are far more responsive to organised community groups than here. AOPA, and of course the NRA, have political clout over there because they can deliver electoral success, or rather they have the muscle to prevent candidates they don't like from getting elected.
GA/AOPA/etc. needs to invest its time and money in
(a) determining which seats are marginal and held by the Federal Government, and
(b) what sort of negative campaign can be operated on the sitting member at the next election.
It is important to understand that the political power of groups in America comes from their ability to prevent election, which is far cheaper than trying to ensure election.
We need to do likewise.
gerry111
No, I think you’re mistaken, the Abbott Government hasn’t awarded me a “trinket” The Australian Honours Award runs from the Governor General’s Office and as far as I know is not party political. Having said that, under no circumstances did I gladly accept the award – when they mentioned that it was partially in relation to Aviation Reform, I immediately realised that I hadn’t been able to finish the Reform and this would be deceptive. That’s why I have committed myself to making sure some of the Reforms go through. Having said that, I believe under the present management of CASA and the present Minister, there is no hope of this happening in any way.
I have advised everyone I see to get out of aviation, I am selling my aircraft. I would say there is going to be another 5 to 10 years of absolute chaos. Anyone who invests in aviation anyway is most likely to lose all their money.
If they sell out now they are likely to lose the minimum. There is simply no understanding at Airservices and at CASA and in the Department that cost is so important for General Aviation. Misallocate $100 million in relation to the airlines and that’s either $1 or $2 per passenger and hardly noticeable. Misallocate $100 million in General Aviation and you don’t have an industry anymore.
There is no understanding of this within these 3 organisations and that’s why things are going to get far worse before they get better.
Just recently Collins closed down their office in Australia, after 30 years. So if you want to get any Collins equipment serviced, it means sending it to the USA and waiting 2 or 3 weeks as your aircraft sits on the ground – I know, it’s just happened to me with my CJ3.
Remember, these military people now running things have the legacy of the $1.4 billion Super Seasprite loss. Yet it makes no difference to them, no one was ever held accountable and they no doubt all awarded themselves performance bonuses.
Part 61 and the soon to be introduced mandatory ADS-B for all IFR aircraft (nothing like this anywhere else in the world) will finally put the nail in the coffin for GA.
No, I think you’re mistaken, the Abbott Government hasn’t awarded me a “trinket” The Australian Honours Award runs from the Governor General’s Office and as far as I know is not party political. Having said that, under no circumstances did I gladly accept the award – when they mentioned that it was partially in relation to Aviation Reform, I immediately realised that I hadn’t been able to finish the Reform and this would be deceptive. That’s why I have committed myself to making sure some of the Reforms go through. Having said that, I believe under the present management of CASA and the present Minister, there is no hope of this happening in any way.
I have advised everyone I see to get out of aviation, I am selling my aircraft. I would say there is going to be another 5 to 10 years of absolute chaos. Anyone who invests in aviation anyway is most likely to lose all their money.
If they sell out now they are likely to lose the minimum. There is simply no understanding at Airservices and at CASA and in the Department that cost is so important for General Aviation. Misallocate $100 million in relation to the airlines and that’s either $1 or $2 per passenger and hardly noticeable. Misallocate $100 million in General Aviation and you don’t have an industry anymore.
There is no understanding of this within these 3 organisations and that’s why things are going to get far worse before they get better.
Just recently Collins closed down their office in Australia, after 30 years. So if you want to get any Collins equipment serviced, it means sending it to the USA and waiting 2 or 3 weeks as your aircraft sits on the ground – I know, it’s just happened to me with my CJ3.
Remember, these military people now running things have the legacy of the $1.4 billion Super Seasprite loss. Yet it makes no difference to them, no one was ever held accountable and they no doubt all awarded themselves performance bonuses.
Part 61 and the soon to be introduced mandatory ADS-B for all IFR aircraft (nothing like this anywhere else in the world) will finally put the nail in the coffin for GA.
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I would say there is going to be another 5 to 10 years of absolute chaos. Anyone who invests in aviation anyway is most likely to lose all their money.
Part 61 and the soon to be introduced mandatory ADS-B for all IFR aircraft (nothing like this anywhere else in the world) will finally put the nail in the coffin for GA.
Yeah, I know. No-one in GA could afford to pay for the ads.
Sorry Dick, you lost me with
Have you any evidence that any of 'these military people now running things' had anything whatsoever to do with the Seasprite debacle? Have you any evidence that any of them were awarded a performance bonus? Have you ever even heard of a serving military officer receiving a performance bonus? (I haven't.)
And please don't come back with, "It doesn't matter whether they were individually involved, they're all part of the same system". That would be about as valid as pointing to Onetel, HIH, Allco, Ansett and WA Inc, and concluding that no prominent Australian businessman should ever be allowed a significant role in running civil aviation.
Remember, these military people now running things have the legacy of the $1.4 billion Super Seasprite loss. Yet it makes no difference to them, no one was ever held accountable and they no doubt all awarded themselves performance bonuses.
And please don't come back with, "It doesn't matter whether they were individually involved, they're all part of the same system". That would be about as valid as pointing to Onetel, HIH, Allco, Ansett and WA Inc, and concluding that no prominent Australian businessman should ever be allowed a significant role in running civil aviation.
Moderator
Misallocate $100 million in relation to the airlines and that’s either $1 or $2 per passenger and hardly noticeable. Misallocate $100 million in General Aviation and you don’t have an industry anymore.
The Never-Ending-Story.....
