Crash in Gordon VIC?
The first solo nav is exactly that... a first SOLO nav. Presumably a number of dual Nav's took place prior.
Where does it end though? You can't just not send a student on a nav because there may be cloud in the area.
I'm anticipating seeing a writeup on this exact topic from the ATSB with a few guidelines, but that being said, nothing has changed to warrant a change to the system.
We weren't there so we don't know what happened.
Where does it end though? You can't just not send a student on a nav because there may be cloud in the area.
I'm anticipating seeing a writeup on this exact topic from the ATSB with a few guidelines, but that being said, nothing has changed to warrant a change to the system.
We weren't there so we don't know what happened.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
VI, it was VH-TAU in trouble, heard on 120.75/124.1. VH-QQT did a great job of assisting, kudos to you Sir ! I can assure you it was scary listening to it unfold.
VI, it was VH-TAU in trouble, heard on 120.75/124.1. VH-QQT did a great job of assisting, kudos to you Sir ! I can assure you it was scary listening to it unfold.
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Wyndham Vale
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Advisory on the student route
Just to advise you, this particular first nav solo takes you past Colac to Swan Marsh, then north to Ballarat, then back to Point Cook via Melton South.
Fool Course Pitch - can you give it a rest please. The dad was understandably hugely distressed at this accident and people like you just make matters so much worse.
Grow up and peddle your unproven hypothetical theories somewhere else at a letter date please.
Grow up and peddle your unproven hypothetical theories somewhere else at a letter date please.
Join Date: May 2012
Location: syd
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whatever the cause
We don't know what happened to the flight. Hopefully the G1000 has an SD card for flight log.
My condolences go out to the deceased pilot and his/her family,the flying school and the instructor/s who trained and looked after the trainee.
Having been flying around this part of Vic for few years now and I can say that weather around YBLT, the southern slope and ranges is particularly challenging. I am not implying that it is the causal factor for this accident because we don't know yet.
Break break......not implying anything
What is truely missing? The teaching and assessing TEM,NTS in accordance with CAAP 5.59 and MOS Part 61.
Too often,Instructors make decisions for students. When student make a wrong decision they get shouted at. What about demonstrate, direct and monitor situational awareness and decision making ? What about read the CAAP and few other human factor books on aeronautical decision making?
My condolences go out to the deceased pilot and his/her family,the flying school and the instructor/s who trained and looked after the trainee.
Having been flying around this part of Vic for few years now and I can say that weather around YBLT, the southern slope and ranges is particularly challenging. I am not implying that it is the causal factor for this accident because we don't know yet.
Break break......not implying anything
What is truely missing? The teaching and assessing TEM,NTS in accordance with CAAP 5.59 and MOS Part 61.
Too often,Instructors make decisions for students. When student make a wrong decision they get shouted at. What about demonstrate, direct and monitor situational awareness and decision making ? What about read the CAAP and few other human factor books on aeronautical decision making?
So the report is out now and suggests a mis-managed autopilot, or rather, attempting to hand-fly in pitch, with the autopilot also engaged, such that when it was disengaged the aircraft was seriously out of trim with insufficient height/awareness to recover. Of note, Garmin doesn't think a caution against doing so, in the same vein as the previous Bendix King autopilot, is warrented as apparently not doing so 'is common knowledge' - well, apparently not...
The last recorded data shows a -10* FD pitch command, and a -24* pitch angle. At around 750AGL. Small wonder the MLG and nose (not the NLG) hit almost simultaneously. Yikes!
Also it's interesting to note a requirement of the school that NavEx's be conducted with a minimum height of 1000AGL, and the plan is to be checked by an instructor. The plan for the accident flight resulted in a clearance of only 250AGL on one leg.
"But, but. but, most students flew to one side of the hill..."
The last recorded data shows a -10* FD pitch command, and a -24* pitch angle. At around 750AGL. Small wonder the MLG and nose (not the NLG) hit almost simultaneously. Yikes!
Also it's interesting to note a requirement of the school that NavEx's be conducted with a minimum height of 1000AGL, and the plan is to be checked by an instructor. The plan for the accident flight resulted in a clearance of only 250AGL on one leg.
"But, but. but, most students flew to one side of the hill..."
Excellent report by ATSB. But what an avoidable tragic accident. I note that the flight instrumentation in that modern Cessna 172 includes a modern glass cockpit and autopilot flight director system. FD's were designed to aid instrument flying. That flight was a VFR cross-country presumably using map reading which means looking outside.
Perhaps training organisations need to avoid getting sucked in by the seduction of todays sophisticated flight instrument and autopilot displays that come with new aircraft. Students should not be using flight directors or autopilots during ab-initio training; and that includes cross-country map reading.
No wonder that pilots brought up to use these relatively sophisticated aids in their light training aircraft types so early in their flying career (the unfortunate young pilot only had 50 hours flying experience), eventually become the "automatic monkeys" commonly found on the flight decks of airliners.
The flying school concerned quite rightly reminded its students to only use the autopilot (includes the FD) to reduce the workload if things get too much. They forget however, it is only natural for today's new pilots brought up and expert on using IPads and smart phones will want to play with the aircraft automatics and their colourful instrument flying goodies, during solo cross country legs with no one looking over their shoulder.
Perhaps training organisations need to avoid getting sucked in by the seduction of todays sophisticated flight instrument and autopilot displays that come with new aircraft. Students should not be using flight directors or autopilots during ab-initio training; and that includes cross-country map reading.
No wonder that pilots brought up to use these relatively sophisticated aids in their light training aircraft types so early in their flying career (the unfortunate young pilot only had 50 hours flying experience), eventually become the "automatic monkeys" commonly found on the flight decks of airliners.
The flying school concerned quite rightly reminded its students to only use the autopilot (includes the FD) to reduce the workload if things get too much. They forget however, it is only natural for today's new pilots brought up and expert on using IPads and smart phones will want to play with the aircraft automatics and their colourful instrument flying goodies, during solo cross country legs with no one looking over their shoulder.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The flying school concerned quite rightly reminded its students to only use the autopilot (includes the FD) to reduce the workload if things get too much.
Part of human factors training should be to recognise when technology is becoming a distraction and go back to the basics of manual flying (aviate, etc...)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Victoria
Posts: 750
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
