IFR renewal/prof check under Part 61
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IFR renewal/prof check under Part 61
Hi Guys,
I've had a read, but just to confirm for a MECIR with all nav aids/approaches . I Must shoot an ILS in flight (to cover 3D) but for 2D it can be RNAV,VOR or NDB in flight? or as RNAV is CDI and VOR*/NDB is azimuth both require separate approaches to cover CDI & azimuth aspect?
Some telling me ILS & RNAV and your done
Some no ILS, RNAV and NDB
Hope someone out there has done there 1st renewal/prof check under 61.
* when it is displayed on an RMI as a needle indication
TOGA then flex
I've had a read, but just to confirm for a MECIR with all nav aids/approaches . I Must shoot an ILS in flight (to cover 3D) but for 2D it can be RNAV,VOR or NDB in flight? or as RNAV is CDI and VOR*/NDB is azimuth both require separate approaches to cover CDI & azimuth aspect?
Some telling me ILS & RNAV and your done
Some no ILS, RNAV and NDB
Hope someone out there has done there 1st renewal/prof check under 61.
* when it is displayed on an RMI as a needle indication
TOGA then flex
G'Day TOGA,
I just sat my renewal a couple of weeks ago and the ATO exact words were, "we cant get a straight answer out of CASA so we are doing what we think is right which was,
ILS for 3D
VOR RMI for 2D
RNAV being separate for currency reasons and in their eyes didn't meet the requirements and wasn't CDI. All approaches flown in the AC. Hope this helps.
I just sat my renewal a couple of weeks ago and the ATO exact words were, "we cant get a straight answer out of CASA so we are doing what we think is right which was,
ILS for 3D
VOR RMI for 2D
RNAV being separate for currency reasons and in their eyes didn't meet the requirements and wasn't CDI. All approaches flown in the AC. Hope this helps.
Yeah, I did my renewal under Part 61 a few weeks ago.
As I understand it, to cover the lot you need:
3D (ILS or RNP) and 2D (LOC, VOR, NDB, or RNAV)
CDI (ILS, LOC, VOR or RNAV) and Azimuth (RMI, fixed card NDB, or DME/GPS arrival using the NDB for azimuth guidance)
Plus the usual partial panel, steep turns, recoveries from unusual attitudes, and a circling appr.
I also flew it all in the aeroplane.
Dr
PS: And then you might as well get a sign off on your PIFR as well - Ha! Don't ask!
As I understand it, to cover the lot you need:
3D (ILS or RNP) and 2D (LOC, VOR, NDB, or RNAV)
CDI (ILS, LOC, VOR or RNAV) and Azimuth (RMI, fixed card NDB, or DME/GPS arrival using the NDB for azimuth guidance)
Plus the usual partial panel, steep turns, recoveries from unusual attitudes, and a circling appr.
I also flew it all in the aeroplane.
Dr
PS: And then you might as well get a sign off on your PIFR as well - Ha! Don't ask!
Join Date: Jul 2004
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The requirements for an IPC (renewal) are in Schedule 6, Appendix 1 of the MOS. Nowhere in schedule 6 is an azimuth (or CDI) approach required. The CDI/azimuth requirements apply to initial issue flight tests - Schedule 5 of the MOS.
Two approaches are required for the IPC - MOS Schedule 6, Appendix 1, para 1.1. They can all be in an approved (including for visual circling and asymmetrics) simulator .
One of these must be a 2D approach, including demonstration of a GNSS holding pattern if the applicant is authorised to fly GNSS approaches.
A 3D approach is not required, but then the applicant is limited as per 61.900.
Unless a simulator approved for visual circling and asymmetric assessments is used, then at least 2 approaches will be required in flight to facilitate the engine failure and circling requirements of the test (engine failure prior to approach and in the missed approach CIR.9 and visual circling CIR.10). This could be an ILS and an RNAV, 2 RNAVs or whatever combination you wish, as long as you do a 2D approach and a GNSS holding pattern as described above.
Some ATOs will allow the candidate to commence a missed approach on 1 engine in simulated IMC, and then remove the hood and allow them to commence circling after some portion of the missed approach. This is inappropriate because the circling is supposed to start from the minima as per the Flight Examiner Handbook. CASA has knocked this practice on the head. ATOs should beware granting an IPC on the basis of only one approach in the air, without a very good explanation of how they assessed both CIR.9 and CIR.10 with only one approach.
Steep turns have not been required since before Part 61, and they are certainly not listed in the MOS now, so i'm not sure why you would be asked to fly a steep turn, unless part of the UA entry/recovery.
Two approaches are required for the IPC - MOS Schedule 6, Appendix 1, para 1.1. They can all be in an approved (including for visual circling and asymmetrics) simulator .
One of these must be a 2D approach, including demonstration of a GNSS holding pattern if the applicant is authorised to fly GNSS approaches.
A 3D approach is not required, but then the applicant is limited as per 61.900.
Unless a simulator approved for visual circling and asymmetric assessments is used, then at least 2 approaches will be required in flight to facilitate the engine failure and circling requirements of the test (engine failure prior to approach and in the missed approach CIR.9 and visual circling CIR.10). This could be an ILS and an RNAV, 2 RNAVs or whatever combination you wish, as long as you do a 2D approach and a GNSS holding pattern as described above.
Some ATOs will allow the candidate to commence a missed approach on 1 engine in simulated IMC, and then remove the hood and allow them to commence circling after some portion of the missed approach. This is inappropriate because the circling is supposed to start from the minima as per the Flight Examiner Handbook. CASA has knocked this practice on the head. ATOs should beware granting an IPC on the basis of only one approach in the air, without a very good explanation of how they assessed both CIR.9 and CIR.10 with only one approach.
Steep turns have not been required since before Part 61, and they are certainly not listed in the MOS now, so i'm not sure why you would be asked to fly a steep turn, unless part of the UA entry/recovery.
Steep turns have not been required since before Part 61, and they are certainly not listed in the MOS now, so i'm not sure why you would be asked to fly a steep turn, unless part of the UA entry/recovery.
Dr
PS: Its all too confusing for an old bloke like me, so I just say to the ATO, "Lets go do whatever I need to be legal"!
G,Day Scavenger,
I'm sure that what you have written is correct but a few things, firstly recency, with what's written above ie no ILS, in my example I wouldn't have been recent. I'm sure that if you are a current IFR driver it would work fine but would be most likely done in house anyway. Mine was done at a FTO with an In house ATO.
Secondly what is legally required and what an ATO is happy to sign off are obviously different. And last, a few steep turns never hurt anyone! I'd no issues in something that at the end of the day cost at most $50.
I think the main hung is as long as they are not ripping you off, there is benefit, and it's fair it's ok. I had no ATO fee so the saving there paid for anything they wanted to throw at me and hours in the logbook to show for it!
Cheers.
I'm sure that what you have written is correct but a few things, firstly recency, with what's written above ie no ILS, in my example I wouldn't have been recent. I'm sure that if you are a current IFR driver it would work fine but would be most likely done in house anyway. Mine was done at a FTO with an In house ATO.
Secondly what is legally required and what an ATO is happy to sign off are obviously different. And last, a few steep turns never hurt anyone! I'd no issues in something that at the end of the day cost at most $50.
I think the main hung is as long as they are not ripping you off, there is benefit, and it's fair it's ok. I had no ATO fee so the saving there paid for anything they wanted to throw at me and hours in the logbook to show for it!
Cheers.
