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To all those looking for a new job.

Old 12th Apr 2015, 09:26
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting post GTang, when I started building my RV I thought that I would stay current by towing gliders ( I started flying gliders ) but I found that I was on the end of quite a long que, so it never happened. Wish it did, coz now I have finished the aeroplane but am not current, so there you go, where to from here?
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Old 12th Apr 2015, 10:08
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How much do GA employers spend advertising and/or training up new pilots . . . only to have to do it all again every six to 12 months?
I estimate about $17500, plus endorsement training.

...includes wages/time taken to complete DG and HF training, CAO 20:11, etc AND the cost of providing the course PLUS the cost of base checks, line checks and Renewals.

When you give people a start, give them all the training, do it all properly and they promise to stay for [x] months, then f*ck off saying "sorry but I gotta do whats best for my career"...
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Old 12th Apr 2015, 10:34
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So almost $340 a week over 12 months. That would go some way to promoting a bit of loyalty, wouldn't it?

I'll refrain from using the chicken and egg analogy, as neither are very good at flying.
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Old 12th Apr 2015, 12:00
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Originally Posted by Arnold E View Post
Interesting post GTang, when I started building my RV I thought that I would stay current by towing gliders ( I started flying gliders ) but I found that I was on the end of quite a long que, so it never happened. Wish it did, coz now I have finished the aeroplane but am not current, so there you go, where to from here?
Sent you a pm
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Old 12th Apr 2015, 12:13
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Anyone want to see an example of the "simple CV" that Andy is talking about?
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Old 12th Apr 2015, 14:18
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Thumbs up

Hi Andy,

Good post, I am often surprised at what passes for a resume, and not just in aviation. I forwarded a friend's resume to my company's HR division recently, but before I did I had to spend hours cleaning it up. I cut pages out, corrected spelling etc. then sent it back to him for approval. Ordinarily I wouldn't bother, but I know the standard of his work well. This was a resume from a guy with more than a decade and thousands of hours of military and civilian flying experience.

On the flip side, I understand the frustration contained in 50 50's post. The industry is full of dodgy operators and wankers; it's a minefield. I was lucky, I got the first flying job I applied for. It was a government job and starting, first-year, base salary was $50k. The next one paid $160k, and it's not an airline. This didn't happen by accident, however, I chose carefully. I had offers to work for operators who wanted me to pay for endorsements and work for free. Others who I decided against working for within seconds of speaking to the chief pilot. Regardless, I was always prepared to fly casually for fun and work at other jobs if I had to; it was always a better option than getting flogged and struggling in a flying job I didn't enjoy.

Thanks for posting your honest opinion Andy. The fact that you've done this, and taken the time to address the concerns of other posters indicates that you are one of the good guys.
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Old 12th Apr 2015, 23:25
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps some should give those trying to start out in the industry a break & provide some structured information on aviation resumes, instead of just giving people a hard time. Sure there are some who are just lazy & those who have the modern day, young person's sense of entitlement, but others are genuine.

Although things might have changed in recent years, I was never taught how to write a resume. I got some books on the subject & then ended up going to a company that specialized in writing resumes. And what they did up for me obviously wouldn't be acceptable for aviation, going by the posts on this thread. The information out there is more mainstream & not necessarily relevant for more specialized industries such as aviation.

Perhaps being a little more constructive rather than destructive would benefit everyone more.
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Old 13th Apr 2015, 00:11
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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My 18 yr old daughter hand wrote a letter to a CEO of a manufacturing company and scored a chat and tour of the company with him last week.
She had innovative product ideas and wasnt after a job per se.
CEO said they get hundreds of requests on facebook but "no one hand writes a letter", which impressed him.

Knowing how and who to impress is key especially if you can't yet tick all the boxes.

Mickjoebill
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Old 13th Apr 2015, 02:23
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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On the flip side, I understand the frustration contained in 50 50's post. The industry is full of dodgy operators and wankers; it's a minefield. I was lucky, I got the first flying job I applied for. It was a government job and starting, first-year, base salary was $50k. The next one paid $160k, and it's not an airline. This didn't happen by accident, however, I chose carefully. I had offers to work for operators who wanted me to pay for endorsements and work for free. Others who I decided against working for within seconds of speaking to the chief pilot. Regardless, I was always prepared to fly casually for fun and work at other jobs if I had to; it was always a better option than getting flogged and struggling in a flying job I didn't enjoy.
My bolding, perhaps the industry wouldn't be in the mess it's in if more people made these choices.
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Old 13th Apr 2015, 03:25
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Oakape,
Perhaps the flying school which has just milked you for $100K+ could advise on resume writing.
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Old 13th Apr 2015, 04:20
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Google has a wealth of resources for preparing a professional resume. If you can't work it out from there, perhaps you should be digging trenches for a living. If I owned an aircraft worth millions of dollars that had complex systems, up to date avionics and turbine engines, I'd want someone piloting it that is capable of preparing their own resume.

How hard can it be to write down a total time of 150 hours sausage factory anyway?
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Old 13th Apr 2015, 04:35
  #72 (permalink)  
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Perhaps the flying school which has just milked you for $100K+ could advise on resume writing
Interesting comment Tankengine, because that was exactly what the owner/operator of the Flying School where I did all of my flying training used to do, back in the early 1980s.

And his opinion on what is required corresponded precisely with the requirements expressed by my old Boss in PNG, as I mentioned in post# 40
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Old 13th Apr 2015, 08:12
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Resume writing won't help much. Every operator I have spoken to, and that is just about everyone, has said the same thing. "Sorry we don't need any more staff". It's not about qualifications or attitude, or how much Mummy and Daddy can afford, it's simply there is no movement in the industry. If nobody at the top is hiring, nobody at the bottom is moving.

The head down bum up advice is great, but I can't even score a crap job let alone a good one. It's been over 2 years since my last paid (flying) work and the answer stays the same. "Even if you'd do it for free I can't take the work off my guys". I totally understand that, nor should you. So where does that leave everyone else?

I looked into glider towing as well, I was basically told you have to be the son of the guy already doing it, and wait for Dad to die.
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Old 13th Apr 2015, 08:54
  #74 (permalink)  
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50 50

This is where you are wrong.

A well written succinct resume will get you past stage 1 (circular filing cabinet).

We have taken on 10 new pilots so far in 2015 with many more to come. I know of a particular company in WA that has taken a number of newbies to fill the void of pilots heading our way.

There is movement, maybe not a lot but its there.

From an International standpoint, things are beginning to pick up at the high end therefore opening positions at the bottom and so the cycle continues.

Good Luck with your search

Andy
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Old 13th Apr 2015, 08:58
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Skydiving perhaps? I really feel sorry for folks trying to get a start in this industry but I do see the odd one who simply lucks in wherever they go. No real advice 50 50 sorry.

BTW I don't really know what a resume is apart from the fact I see a few job applications across my desk. Never written one, never had one, never needed one. Must be a generational thing. I wouldn't know a good one from a bad one and at this stage in life I ain't learning.
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Old 13th Apr 2015, 09:02
  #76 (permalink)  
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Tankengine

My friend that is one of the best things i have heard in a very long time.

I spent a number of years working in a flying school where they would produce well trained CPL's but when it came to assisting them in any way after they passed their final flight tests the school really didn't want to know them.

After sales service to say the least was disgusting unless there was a dollar to be made.

This is certainly an area within the flight training environment that could be improved.

How to prepare a CV, Interview techniques, landing that first job.. Seriously how much time would it take, considering the school has just taken A$100K from you.

I could see some good schools like GlenB taking this on, but i can also see others wanting to charge a fortune.
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Old 13th Apr 2015, 09:26
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Andy,

I have to say, I really admire your willingness to help job seekers.

I also have to say, like Squawk7700, Google has some pretty good examples for pilot CVs.

A search based on 'pilot resume examples' turned up at first result some really good examples - the one of Jonas Adelini's was a 'cracker' - it's at Curriculum Vitae and Resume Example for Pilots-Latest Pilot Jobs

Everything an employer needs to know, and in a format that I'd suggest that Andy might just approve of.

50 50 .... I'm not too sure where you are looking (or perhaps AREN'T looking), but there's definitely jobs advertised on the AFAP website. And I know for a fact that there are jobs going if you decide to get adventurous and look further afield than Australia - and 'No', they aren't PTF (pay-to-fly) jobs either.

I'm fortunate in that I don't have to look for a job these days, but it wasn't always that way, and it certainly hasn't changed in the time I've been involved in the industry 50 50, so you just need to keep at it.

Last edited by SIUYA; 13th Apr 2015 at 09:39.
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Old 13th Apr 2015, 10:53
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Pilot58...

Do us all a BIG favour and give up while you're behind.

OK?

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Old 14th Apr 2015, 08:43
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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G'Day Andy (and the other employers on here),
I haven't seen your Ad so I'm not sure of your prerequisites, (past the job hunting stage now), however I have met quite a few people looking for their first job who reckon they need 10hrs of 200 series Cessna time. I have a 185 available for hire (with safety pilot) that no one seems interested in because it's not a 200 series.
Personally I would be more impressed with 185 time than 206 time in a resume if I was an employer.
Just wondering what you and the others thought that are watching this thread?

Cheers
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Old 14th Apr 2015, 09:06
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If you can fly a 185 you can certainly fly a 206 but not necessarily vice versa!

I am past the job hunting stage too and will be shortly past the employer stage as well but I would certainly count 185 time ahead of 206 time. A tail wheel endo is also a big plus even though we don't operate any. Trouble is most newby's don't even know what a 185 is, let alone know how well they fly. Sadly most are cash strapped and another endorsement is barrier even though 10 hours should easily cover it.

Your problem is if you hire a 185 to a newby you are a brave man indeed and if a safety pilot is aboard it is not quality solo time.
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