Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions
Reload this Page >

foreign airlines on Domestic routes

The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

foreign airlines on Domestic routes

Old 7th Feb 2015, 19:25
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Australia
Age: 34
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
foreign airlines on Domestic routes

Recently noticed that a few intl carriers conduct flights between aus cities such as cathay between brissy and cairns or air India from Sydney to melbourne. However you are unable to book a ticket. So I'm wondering if these flights are empty or are they only available to intl travellers?
MaxFL360 is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2015, 20:08
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sydney
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Use AI for example

Rather than running two airframes, one to sydney and one to melbourne they do a milk run and drop off pax / pick up those. Only on the international sector hence not being able to buy a domestic ticket
onehitwonder is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2015, 22:19
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mydadsbag
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is that Toyota Airlines, Holden Airlines or Mitsubishi Airlines?
What does that writing on the wall say?

Bbbbbbzs
Mr.Buzzy is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2015, 22:34
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
You may be able to travel on the domestic sector if you arrive with that airline from overseas and stop over at the first point of arrival. i.e. Come from HKG have a few days in CNS and go on to SYD.

I'm not sure of the current regs. but in the past you got an orange sticker for your luggage and boarding pass. You didn't need to clear immigration but you had to go through Customs as you had mixed with arriving passengers.
Metro man is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2015, 23:02
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The GAFA
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Whilst not foreign airlines, I have travelled on domestic positioning services of international flights before (QF SY - BN & JQ SY - CS). The tickets were cheap, but the flights were boarded and disembarked at the relevant international terminals which took more time.
drunk_pilot is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2015, 00:01
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
These flights are sold as normal domestic services which is what they basically are. What an Australian airline does with an aircraft after it's flown between two domestic cities doesn't matter. There is usually an note saying that the flight departs or arrives from the international terminal and that's about it. Sometimes you get lucky and have a wide body instead of a sardine can.
Metro man is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2015, 02:13
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,079
Received 151 Likes on 66 Posts
Any airline in the world can operate SYD-MEL domestically everything else is locked up and is for foreign onward travel.
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2015, 07:50
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 70
Posts: 3,052
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Some confusing replies here, apart from #5 and 2.

Traffic rights dictate that a 'foreign' airline may be able to operate for example HKG-MEL-SYD. It will be able to carry passengers HKG-SYD and HKG-MEL but not MEL-SYD, unless that segment forms part of an online connecting or stopover journey, in which the passenger will have been ticketed appropriately. The same applies on reverse on the outbound journey.

What they will not be able to do is sell tickets, in AU, to local pax, purely for the domestic leg.

There is an exception in the EU whereby the entire EU is considered for this purpose as one country, so for example an Irish airline can operate between MAD and ROM or even between ROM and MIL.
Capetonian is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2015, 08:53
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,283
Received 216 Likes on 103 Posts
There has also been an exception in Australia but it was a unique circumstance during the '89 pilot's dispute. Foreign airlines were flying domestic pax on domestic routes.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2015, 08:56
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Paradise
Age: 68
Posts: 1,554
Received 52 Likes on 20 Posts
And don't forget that QF operates Los Angeles-New York (and used to operate LA to Chicago as well), so this is not something unique to Australia.
chimbu warrior is offline  
Old 9th Feb 2015, 00:27
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Sydney
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Let's not forget also JETSTAR operating domestically in nz on VH rego aircraft.
apache is offline  
Old 9th Feb 2015, 01:02
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over the Planet
Posts: 870
Received 13 Likes on 6 Posts
And don't forget that QF operates Los Angeles-New York (and used to operate LA to Chicago as well), so this is not something unique to Australia.
And hell will freeze before foreign carriers are granted cabotage rights in the Land of The Free! That might mean competition.
Ken Borough is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2015, 04:55
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: BNE
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
New Zealand airlines can fly domestically in Australia under NZ CAA rules which are apparently much easier to navigate than CASA rules.


One of the catches is, must have main operation in NZL.


Vincent NZ used to operate a BAe146 in OZ with NZL rego & by NZ CAA rules.


It was available for domestic charter. It could have done RPT but don't think it ever did.


Air NZ could operate domestically in OZ. Airwork used to operate a pax B734 in OZ & think they have some freighters here with NZ rego.


Apparently it's an easy way to operate RPT flights in OZ, ie. do it on a NZL AOC.
BNEA320 is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2015, 13:05
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,955
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Folks,

Re. Au and NZ, acquaint yourselves with the Trans Tasman Mutual Recognition Treaty ---- CASA simply hates it, it is that good!!

In years gone by, several OS carriers did have domestic rights, the examples I remember are Air India between Perth and Sydney, and BOAC/BA between both Perth and Darwin and Sydney.

Not all that long ago, there were several such cases dormant, they haven't, to my knowledge, been used for years --- if any still exist.

Tootle pip!!
LeadSled is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2015, 00:18
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: BNE
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
if only there were more NZL airlines, who could fly aircraft is Australia, without all the CASA hassles.
BNEA320 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2015, 13:44
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,955
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
if only there were more NZL airlines, who could fly aircraft is Australia, without all the CASA hassles.
BNEA320,
Any of them can, if they want to. CASA has very little say in the matter.
Tootle pip!!
LeadSled is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.