C130, A400M, C17 civilian versions
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C130, A400M, C17 civilian versions
Why are these cargo airframes not more common in civil ops. There seems to be no shortage of work for the AN-124. Are the airframes, as such being designed for a military role so overly complex that they wouldn't be economical in a civil, non tactical role.
Besides that pesky civilian certification issue.
civilian certification requires some things that military aircraft don't. Pressurization, performance, and a host of other things that are more restrictive in civilian ops. For some types the manufacturer just hasn't bothered with the expense of modding and certifying it for civvy use -even if possible - to sell just a couple of aircraft.
The A400m is the exception. It was designed to be civil compliant and got easa certification 2years ago. Qatar's C17 isn't civilian. Just a fancy paint on a military aircraft.
There is a civil c130 type, IIRC amongst other things it required a cocoon in the pax area to protect them from the bleed air ducts across the roof. As would a C17 should MCD ever pursue it.
civilian certification requires some things that military aircraft don't. Pressurization, performance, and a host of other things that are more restrictive in civilian ops. For some types the manufacturer just hasn't bothered with the expense of modding and certifying it for civvy use -even if possible - to sell just a couple of aircraft.
The A400m is the exception. It was designed to be civil compliant and got easa certification 2years ago. Qatar's C17 isn't civilian. Just a fancy paint on a military aircraft.
There is a civil c130 type, IIRC amongst other things it required a cocoon in the pax area to protect them from the bleed air ducts across the roof. As would a C17 should MCD ever pursue it.
Last edited by compressor stall; 9th Jan 2015 at 11:43.
There are a number of civil C-130 about. One US machine delivered a couple of helos to Australia in the early 80's (from the US). Seem to recall one or two on the Australian registry a few decades ago, think Greg Smith was one of the pilots.
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The civil version of the C130 is the Lockheed L-100 of which 114 were built between 1965 and 1992. It was a "specific purpose" machine as the operating costs exceeded other comparable aircraft on normal operations.
Lockeed L100-30 at London Stanstead in 1979:
On February 3, 2014, Lockheed Martin formally relaunched the LM-100J program, saying it expects to sell 75 aircraft.
I seem to recall an ex RAAF C130 operating on the Australian civil register in the early 1980's but it was very short lived. Three or four ex RAAF very early model C130s were operated by Aboitiz Air Cargo in the Philippines but that was also relatively short lived.
Lockeed L100-30 at London Stanstead in 1979:
On February 3, 2014, Lockheed Martin formally relaunched the LM-100J program, saying it expects to sell 75 aircraft.
I seem to recall an ex RAAF C130 operating on the Australian civil register in the early 1980's but it was very short lived. Three or four ex RAAF very early model C130s were operated by Aboitiz Air Cargo in the Philippines but that was also relatively short lived.
What's the history of the C130 operating a as firebomber in Victoria at the moment?
Besides that pesky civilian certification issue.
I'm not familiar with the Lockheed LM-100J program, but it was a whole lot easier to do a civilian cert 40 years ago than it is today. Some of it is due to legitimate safety improvements, but much of it isn't
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I seem to recall an ex RAAF C130 operating on the Australian civil register in the early 1980's but it was very short lived.
Folks,
As a matter of interest, the C-130H is the military version of the L-382G, not the other way around.
Lynden Air Cargo LLC/ Lynden Air Cargo (PNG) Ltd., based in Anchorage/Lae have a combined fleet of 6 or 7 L-382G.
Last time I looked there were some 50 or so +/- various civil Hercs. around, Safe Air under various names is probably the biggest operator.
Tootle pip!!
A civil certified C-130J is in the works, Lockheed had one eye on FAR Part 25 all through the development of the "J", it is all paperwork.
As a matter of interest, the C-130H is the military version of the L-382G, not the other way around.
Lynden Air Cargo LLC/ Lynden Air Cargo (PNG) Ltd., based in Anchorage/Lae have a combined fleet of 6 or 7 L-382G.
Last time I looked there were some 50 or so +/- various civil Hercs. around, Safe Air under various names is probably the biggest operator.
Tootle pip!!
A civil certified C-130J is in the works, Lockheed had one eye on FAR Part 25 all through the development of the "J", it is all paperwork.
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Interesting, did not know that about 404. FWIW, that airplane is not currently operating. It is in Long term Storage in Kingman Arizona. It may fly again, or it may not.
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An L382G is just the longest L382. Many predate the C-130H and have the same GTC/ATM system of the C-130E, others have the APU system of the C-130H In either case an L383G is 180 inches longer than a standard C-130 through the addition of two fuselage plugs, 100 inches in front of the wing and 80 inches aft. A L382G may have come out of the factory, or it may have been lengthened from a shorter airframe by retrofit. The L382G is an L100-30 (two different models numbers for the same plane). I have no idea why Lockheed did this. For certification purposes (aircraft and airman) it's an L382.
An L382E/L382F is 100 inches longer than a standard C-130, with only the forward plug. It is the same as an L100-20.
An L382/L382B has a fuselage the same length as a standard C-130. It is the same plane as an L100 I don't believe that there are any L100's flying any more. My understanding is there there's a few -20's still operating, but I've never actually seen one myself.
Edit. Apparently there is one L100 in service with the Pakistan Air Force, and as many as 4 L100-20's still in use. All others have either been modified to L100-30 / L382G or written off.
Last edited by A Squared; 11th Jan 2015 at 13:33.
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Generally speaking, military aircraft may not be used for civil commercial aviation, in the US, at least. You could not, for example purchase a surplus C-130, and start a a cargo airline. If the plane didn't come out of Marietta with a civil airworthiness , there is no process for converting*.
There is however, an exception. That is government service or "Public use". In the US, aircraft operated by the government are not "civil aviation" in a strict legal sense. Aircraft being operated under public use are not required to have standard airworthiness certificates. Technically, pilots flying public use aircraft are not required legally to have pilots certificates, although I suspect this is very rare. In addition to aircraft owned, and operated directly by government personnel, "Public Use", also includes aircraft being operated on contract to government agencies, by a third party.
That's why you will see ex-military Hercs in civillian colors, flown by civillian pilots, dropping retardant on fires and spraying dispersant on oil spills. They are being operated for a government agency under the "public use" exemption.
I have no idea how all this fits with the laws of other countries, but that's the legal technicalities in the US.
*It has not always been the case that ex-milltary aircraft could not be given a standard civil airworthiness certificate. There were plenty of C-47's which lived long lives useful lives as DC-3's and a number of the DC-6's I flew had started life as C-118's. I'm not sure when that practice ended.
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I believe what you're referring to is a mod that Safair came up with that was a part of getting approval for passenger operations. My understanding is that they had some L382's runing around Africa in Combi configuration. That's not normal portion of the L382 certification. Normally everything is exposed in the back, just like in a C-130.
Apparently there is one L100 in service with the Pakistan Air Force
That brings back memories, I recall arriving in Rawalpindi (doing a contract stint with PIA at the time) a couple of hours after they wrote of two Hercs, by the simple means of taxying one at some speed into the parked other. Did quite a bit of damage to the adjacent hangar, and another Herc. inside, just for good measure.
Tootle pip!!
Many predate the C-130H
Exactly, put in simple terms, the civil "stretch" got the attention of the military.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Any bets on who will be the first to order civil "J".
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There was an L-382G-38C Hercules on the Australian Register briefly in 82/83.
If there was a real market for it, I am sure Lynden would have set up an Australian operation.