New shortage of pilots.
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New shortage of pilots.
Is Australia able to take up the slack with a pilot shortage, or is our over regulated industry too damaged to recover? How about Engineers to cope with the reported growing demand?
From AVWEB 2/1/15.
The crash of AirAsia 8501 on Sunday has raised questions about the safety record of Indonesia's fast-growing aviation industry. While investigators search the Java Sea for clues to the cause of the crash, a New York Times report this week said Indonesia ranks low among other nations in airline safety practices and is one of nine countries with a failing safety grade from the FAA. The European Union prohibits 62 Indonesian carriers from flying to Europe due to these concerns, according to the Times' report. AirAsia is no longer on that list and has improved its safety record, the report said.
Meanwhile, rapid growth of airline service in Southeast Asia -- which has been a boon to manufacturers including Airbus and Boeing -- has millions more people traveling via budget carriers such as AirAsia, The Associated Press reported this week. That has led to shortages of pilots and other personnel while people relocate to other parts of the world such as the Middle East for better-paying aviation jobs, the AP reported. Lim Chee Meng, CEO of a Singapore-based aviation training company, told the AP that airline wages in the region haven't risen enough to make up for the cost of training, leaving carriers with staff shortages amid growing workloads. "It can lead to cascading effects down the road that can contribute to safety issues … which is a big problem," he said.
From AVWEB 2/1/15.
The crash of AirAsia 8501 on Sunday has raised questions about the safety record of Indonesia's fast-growing aviation industry. While investigators search the Java Sea for clues to the cause of the crash, a New York Times report this week said Indonesia ranks low among other nations in airline safety practices and is one of nine countries with a failing safety grade from the FAA. The European Union prohibits 62 Indonesian carriers from flying to Europe due to these concerns, according to the Times' report. AirAsia is no longer on that list and has improved its safety record, the report said.
Meanwhile, rapid growth of airline service in Southeast Asia -- which has been a boon to manufacturers including Airbus and Boeing -- has millions more people traveling via budget carriers such as AirAsia, The Associated Press reported this week. That has led to shortages of pilots and other personnel while people relocate to other parts of the world such as the Middle East for better-paying aviation jobs, the AP reported. Lim Chee Meng, CEO of a Singapore-based aviation training company, told the AP that airline wages in the region haven't risen enough to make up for the cost of training, leaving carriers with staff shortages amid growing workloads. "It can lead to cascading effects down the road that can contribute to safety issues … which is a big problem," he said.
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Engineers will have a gap in GA at least. Very hard to get an initial licence at the moment. Licence change confusion, training not being recognised and the MONOPOLY that is Aviation Australia is causing a choke point.
Last edited by Hasherucf; 3rd Jan 2015 at 02:59.
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Perhaps I should ask, does Australia have the training infrastructure to fulfill possible future demand for any "reported" vacancies world wide, or has that part of the industry been effectively destroyed by over regulation and high costs? There doesn't appear to be much incentive to become a professional pilot with local qualifications.
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Time on type
And here's the rub...
Coming from a recently collapsed Australian regional ( at least 4 now), sh#t load of hours and experience, willing to get an endorsement....
but if you don't have that:
500hrs time on type
You are f#cked...
ALL Australian regionals bar the majors fly outdated, old aircraft that will not enable you to get a job overseas ( talking turbine here). It doesn't matter that you've had a 5,10,20 yr safe and successful career, if you ain't got that time on type they ain't interested.
There is a huge pool a skilled, capable crew in Oz at the moment that could fly OS easily but for inane govt rules, idiot accountants and rigid flight departments that cannot see the benefit of employing skilled professional pilots who exceed all their minimum requirements except.... Time on type.
Coming from a recently collapsed Australian regional ( at least 4 now), sh#t load of hours and experience, willing to get an endorsement....
but if you don't have that:
500hrs time on type
You are f#cked...
ALL Australian regionals bar the majors fly outdated, old aircraft that will not enable you to get a job overseas ( talking turbine here). It doesn't matter that you've had a 5,10,20 yr safe and successful career, if you ain't got that time on type they ain't interested.
There is a huge pool a skilled, capable crew in Oz at the moment that could fly OS easily but for inane govt rules, idiot accountants and rigid flight departments that cannot see the benefit of employing skilled professional pilots who exceed all their minimum requirements except.... Time on type.
Simply because time on a dash or a Saab or a metro does not qualify you one iota to fly a jet. That's precisely why they want 500 on type. They also probably don't have the trainers to walk you through it.
It took me 1000 hours on the bus to feel like I had enough tools in my bag of tricks to be mostly ahead of it.
Several more and I'm reasonably comfortable. It still catches me out on occassion when I'm high, fast and track shortened after pulling an all nighter. It's something that simply doesn't/didn't happen in props.
Prop flying is a different skill set to jet flying. Flying a jet isn't necessarily harder, but you're no doubt going to make some errors while you're finding your feet. Most airlines would prefer those errors were with a couple of hundred of someone else's passengers and 100 million dollar jet.
It took me 1000 hours on the bus to feel like I had enough tools in my bag of tricks to be mostly ahead of it.
Several more and I'm reasonably comfortable. It still catches me out on occassion when I'm high, fast and track shortened after pulling an all nighter. It's something that simply doesn't/didn't happen in props.
Prop flying is a different skill set to jet flying. Flying a jet isn't necessarily harder, but you're no doubt going to make some errors while you're finding your feet. Most airlines would prefer those errors were with a couple of hundred of someone else's passengers and 100 million dollar jet.
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The Green Goblin I totally agree with your comments but I am in a similar situation to maybegunnado. I think what he was trying to say is it is frustrating to see Airlines in Asia and Indonesia taking other pilots with just a basic Endo and a CPL with 250hrs. I think Indonesia may have looked at it all wrong. The problem was not only hiring pilots that didn't have time on type. It was a 250hr pilot with a CPL and a A320 Endo. You would have a better success rate if you picked up pilots out of Oz with 2000 Hrs an ATPL and 1500hrs Turbine time. As previously mentioned in the posts it's all about companies not wanting to pay people with experience. The problem with Indonesia is they will create a big pilot shortage with the current Law. The amount of Aircraft on order VS pilots VS What they are willing to pay. 4 regional Airlines have gone belly up in the last 18months. We have a flooded market with airlines losing money and not many aircraft on order. Our pilots need to start looking offshore if they want to continue.
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Hmmm
GG,
I normally don't reply as I tend to get my head kicked in, however as I'm in the middle of the crap that is Oz regional aviation I hope you won't mind...
Agreed, turbine time is not jet time. And I really agree that you need 1000hrs on type to really start understanding an aircraft type. However even jobs for ATR's are unavailable to these guys. A collective experience of thousands of command, training, checking, crm, weather, F/a's, fuelling, breakdowns, SIM, etc etc and they can't be considered capable to go fly an ATR....
On the point of jets.... Yes I agree that jets are really different, however most pornstar, qlink, tiger recruits are CTL after not a lot of hours and earning money for the company. Asia is no different.
I remember when Impulse and Virgin started up and took a heap of Q'Link dash Capts. The overwhelming consensus from Qantas, Ansett pilots et al was that these guys would all fail because they didn't have jet time. But my recollection was that they had command time and lots of it. They not only succeeded, but (I suspect) had the greatest pleasure in a collective up yours.
Who would you rather in the RH seat? The age old question.. An Oz pilot (and we all read the stuff about how they're valued in Asia etc) with lots of hours, experience, not afraid to tell the Capt he's being a dick etc etc or the 1000 hr recruit with 500 time on type
I tend to feel that the icon of a head bashing itself against a wall is correct in regards to these guys getting a job on a turbine, jet or tractor...
All the recruitment companies we've written to can't /don't help. Mainly I suspect because they can't, because all the contracts require time on type. So they offer juicier contracts to guys who think the grass is greener. Not their fault really, they are just trying to make a buck as well, but boy are the asian airlines missing a pool of recruits!
So to any Asian/Middle East/World airlines out there that need crew and shift through these pages, there are a lot of great people from Skytrans, Brindabella, Vincents etc (and possibly more to come) that don't meet your 500 on type, but would be a great pickup for your flight department. Go on, be daring, be different, give them a job and you won't regret it.
I normally don't reply as I tend to get my head kicked in, however as I'm in the middle of the crap that is Oz regional aviation I hope you won't mind...
Agreed, turbine time is not jet time. And I really agree that you need 1000hrs on type to really start understanding an aircraft type. However even jobs for ATR's are unavailable to these guys. A collective experience of thousands of command, training, checking, crm, weather, F/a's, fuelling, breakdowns, SIM, etc etc and they can't be considered capable to go fly an ATR....
On the point of jets.... Yes I agree that jets are really different, however most pornstar, qlink, tiger recruits are CTL after not a lot of hours and earning money for the company. Asia is no different.
I remember when Impulse and Virgin started up and took a heap of Q'Link dash Capts. The overwhelming consensus from Qantas, Ansett pilots et al was that these guys would all fail because they didn't have jet time. But my recollection was that they had command time and lots of it. They not only succeeded, but (I suspect) had the greatest pleasure in a collective up yours.
Who would you rather in the RH seat? The age old question.. An Oz pilot (and we all read the stuff about how they're valued in Asia etc) with lots of hours, experience, not afraid to tell the Capt he's being a dick etc etc or the 1000 hr recruit with 500 time on type
I tend to feel that the icon of a head bashing itself against a wall is correct in regards to these guys getting a job on a turbine, jet or tractor...
All the recruitment companies we've written to can't /don't help. Mainly I suspect because they can't, because all the contracts require time on type. So they offer juicier contracts to guys who think the grass is greener. Not their fault really, they are just trying to make a buck as well, but boy are the asian airlines missing a pool of recruits!
So to any Asian/Middle East/World airlines out there that need crew and shift through these pages, there are a lot of great people from Skytrans, Brindabella, Vincents etc (and possibly more to come) that don't meet your 500 on type, but would be a great pickup for your flight department. Go on, be daring, be different, give them a job and you won't regret it.
Flying a 73 or an A-320 is a bit different from flying a turbo prop, but everyone who is flying a jet has had to come from somewhere.
Some of the guys and girls from Brindabella/Vincent/Skytrans etc will not be suited to making the change to jets as their processors ( read brains) were working at 90% capacity to do a good job as a turbo-prop Capt and 100% won't be enough in the jet. That's SOME of them. Most of them will have had mental capacity to spare on the turbo's and will make perfectly good jet pilots. I say that from having been involved in transitioning Ausi turbo prop Captains from their turbo's into 737's.
For some, the transition is too much of an ask. Most however would be a great asset to the airline. The problem I see is that airlines don't want to invest in a new recruit the time and quality training required to take that turbo prop pilot and make him or her a good jet pilot. There is no wizardry about flying the jets, it's just a different set of skills and if the candidate has the baseline mental capacity to do it well ( most will have) , then all that is needed is the investment in training to get a good product.
Maybegunnadoo's plee to SE Asian airlines will fall on deaf ears because the people making the decisions don't actually understand what makes a good, safe, reliable pilot, and how could they? they've never been turned in early while hot with a tailwind and a front approaching the field and had to decide whether to throw it all away and request vectors to hold or continue with it and hopefully get it in with no dramas all while moving at 7km/min. It's that decision making under time pressure with a high mental workload that is important . The people making the decisions about who to hire would just schedule another meeting for next week if they have to make a tricky decision.
Good luck to all the pilots laid off from the regionals.
Some of the guys and girls from Brindabella/Vincent/Skytrans etc will not be suited to making the change to jets as their processors ( read brains) were working at 90% capacity to do a good job as a turbo-prop Capt and 100% won't be enough in the jet. That's SOME of them. Most of them will have had mental capacity to spare on the turbo's and will make perfectly good jet pilots. I say that from having been involved in transitioning Ausi turbo prop Captains from their turbo's into 737's.
For some, the transition is too much of an ask. Most however would be a great asset to the airline. The problem I see is that airlines don't want to invest in a new recruit the time and quality training required to take that turbo prop pilot and make him or her a good jet pilot. There is no wizardry about flying the jets, it's just a different set of skills and if the candidate has the baseline mental capacity to do it well ( most will have) , then all that is needed is the investment in training to get a good product.
Maybegunnadoo's plee to SE Asian airlines will fall on deaf ears because the people making the decisions don't actually understand what makes a good, safe, reliable pilot, and how could they? they've never been turned in early while hot with a tailwind and a front approaching the field and had to decide whether to throw it all away and request vectors to hold or continue with it and hopefully get it in with no dramas all while moving at 7km/min. It's that decision making under time pressure with a high mental workload that is important . The people making the decisions about who to hire would just schedule another meeting for next week if they have to make a tricky decision.
Good luck to all the pilots laid off from the regionals.
The shortage of A320 Captains in China is so great that you don't even have an interview. If you meet the requirements you start the conversion process and if you get through you start working.
Who would you rather in the RH seat? The age old question.. An Oz pilot (and we all read the stuff about how they're valued in Asia etc) with lots of hours, experience, not afraid to tell the Capt he's being a dick etc etc or the 1000 hr recruit with 500 time on type
Oz pilot (and we all read the stuff about how they're valued in Asia etc) with lots of hours, experience, not afraid to tell the Capt he's being a dick etc
IMHO it depends on the combination of two traits;
1/ Natural ability
2/ Attitude
Often the cadets have great ability and the attitude is a crap shoot.
With the more experienced folk the attitude is normally average /good but sometimes the natural ability is being stretched to it's limits. ( sometimes).
All of the above is recruitment stuff. Once you have pilot X arrive for training it doesn't matter what combo of those two traits they have, if you throw them into a box ticking training system and then expose them to a slack line culture you will never get the most out of them. On the other hand if you train them well, then send them on line for an apprenticeship with dedicated disciplined Captains, you'l create good solid operators......guess what, it costs money and those running the show can't see the return on investment nor are they very often skilled at managing safety cultures. Most of the time they actually don't understand what safety is..... Couldn't explain it to you over a beer if they tried.
The boys [and girls] from Kendall Airlines didn't do too well moving to the CRJ....
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The boys [and girls] from Kendall Airlines didn't do too well moving to the CRJ....
a certain Canadian check pilot sent across to train the Aussies
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Indonesia has 62 Carriers? Somehow this doesn't sound right...
270 Million population and continuing to rapidly grow
You should try flying in that circus...
Gotta be on the ball!Pilot shortage? Yep, in many regions "the pool is already dry" of experience, especially with ALL USA majors recruiting heavily now, along with BA & Virgin (oh I nearly forgot, AND all the Middle East and I mean ALL from Bizjets to heavies, all countries).
Happy Landings
I agree....no one will look at you unless you have that time on time! Not only that, but operators tend to shy away unless you are current on type, with some requiring 500-1000 hrs on type and last flown that type within last 6 months. So even if you have amassed 500 hrs on type on a 737 for example, a number of operators won't even look at your resume if you have been off that type for whatever reason, for some, greater than 6 months! Then again depends how desperate they are I guess! 
At the moment the companies hold all the cards through all levels of aviation meaning the pilots don't have a lot of clout, however just like in 08, the worm will turn and all the hilarious minimums being asked will be reduced or removed altogether. It's just the sh1t end of the cycle for drivers at the moment..
Get CPL and can't find a job due to lack of hours.
Get C206 job and can't move onto twins due to no multi time.
Get Baron job and can't move onto turboprops due to no turbine time.
Get DHC8/S340 job and can't move onto jets due to no jet time.
Get A320/B737 job and can't move onto wide body due to no time above 100tons.
Get C206 job and can't move onto twins due to no multi time.
Get Baron job and can't move onto turboprops due to no turbine time.
Get DHC8/S340 job and can't move onto jets due to no jet time.
Get A320/B737 job and can't move onto wide body due to no time above 100tons.