The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Part 61 – A Few Months On

Old 14th Nov 2014, 02:18
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,133
Part 61 – A Few Months On

I have never had such a barrage of communication as that I have received about CASA’s introduction of Part 61.

The main issue being brought up by professional pilots is that there was no safety issue to address and the result will be tens of millions of dollars of extra costs that the industry can ill afford.

One flight instructor has written to me stating,

I have to spend something like $18,500 to keep up but for what reason? Am I going to be safer? I think not. Is CASA going to do anything about this terrible situation? Remember, a flight review in the USA done in a C172 covers everything – every airplane you fly and vice versa. Safety statistics in the USA are marginally better than ours given the weather and terrain within which they operate
Another pilot has written to me stating,

CASA was correct in that the majority of pilots will hardly be affected by the introduction of Part 61. These are the airline pilots.
The areas affected badly are general aviation, a catch-all for all that is not airlines.
The training industry and the private operator are now confused – worried, angry and fed-up with the ignorance of CASA to their role. The collateral damage will be the death knell of large parts of this industry – and for what?
Another professional pilot has come up with a “fix”…

(a) Amend part 61 so that one proficiency check/flight review per year
covers all types that a pilot flies. Without this there will be serious
problems, especially in the helicopter world.

(b) Form a committee with industry and CASA to rewrite Part 61, CASA must
not have a majority representation on this committee.

(c) While this is being done allow all rules, applicable at the time of
introducing Part 61, to stand.

(d) Stop believing CASAs self-audits and grand statements about how safe
they have made our aviation, it is the people in the industry who make it
safe and CASA is more of an impediment than a help.

(e) Audit CASA with a competent overseas authority, I personally believe
it is beyond repair and should be cleaned out, re-badged and started again.

(f) Our aviation regulator should be called the CAA and also be given
the role of fostering and supporting the aviation industry, not just being
the police.
Any further comments would be greatly appreciated.

If anyone is adversely affected in a cost way by Part 61, please put those details on this thread.
Dick Smith is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 03:56
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 340
Dick, I have to agree. From what I see, there is NO SAFETY BENEFIT in the change whatsoever. Did they do a Cost - Benefit analysis? If so, I would like to see it.....

The document is far too large and very difficult to understand. Obviously written by lawyers/legal support people that have very little or no idea what they are doing and what the unintended consequences are likely to be.

I agree strongly that it must be reviewed by a group that includes significant industry representation.

The PIR will be fun!! (Not)
cogwheel is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 04:27
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South
Posts: 636
Dick when you compare the NZCAA part 61 with CASA part 61 it appears that the only thing in common is the title part 61.

While NZ part 61 is not perfect it at least makes sense, is easy to follow and reasonably cost effective (apart from the ATPL flight test requirement that is).

CASA and its rules make CAAC look efficient and effective.

Good luck.
c100driver is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 06:04
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 727
Dick, a big part of my business used to be self-fly aviation tourism.

When CASA opened CLARC and did away with the regional licensing people the time taken to get a Certificate of Validation for a PPL tourist who wanted to spend thousands of dollars here flying around went from 24 hours to 9 months so the whole tourism operation had to be shelved.

At least with the new system there is a chance to get this going again and have minimal involvement with the drones at CLARC. Also as someone who trained overseas it makes sense to me where all the wierd Australian licensing anamolies didn't seem to have any reason other than to be "different" and I am glad that things like GFPTs have gone.

Financially it hasn't made much difference to me but I am a Part 141 one-man-band.
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 06:58
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,133
Clare Prop. Are you saying that the new system will make it easier for foreign private pilots to fly here? If so. That's great.

Just as an American or Russian can come here and rent a car or truck at the airport and drive straight out in 10 minutes. It should be the same for flying!

They would have to do a course on our unique airspace system where VFR give circuit calls on Air Traffic Control frequencies.
Dick Smith is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 10:24
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 727
Yes Dick, not as simple as it could be but they no longer have to do a PPL flight test and written exam, just a flight review...but then it still has to go to CLARC to issue the Australian licence. I'm yet to discover how long the last bit will take but hopefully not as long as a Certificate of Validation did. I can do ASICs so that's one less thing for CLARC to mess up. Their incompetence is mind boggling and I dread to think how many millions they have cost the aviation and tourism industry since the crazy idea to move everything to Can'tberra and away from the regional offices where they could present their paperwork in person and have it done pretty much on the spot..

I don't allow my aircraft out on hire to land at unmarked strips so that crazy R/T issue won't arise.
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 21:07
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,133
CLARC ? Please explain
Dick Smith is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 21:22
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beyond the sea!
Posts: 33
CLARC - CASA Licencing and Registration Centre.
Liklik balus is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2014, 00:27
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 727
Dick CLARC are the most incompetent government department I have ever had to deal with and that is saying something.
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2014, 14:11
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 451
CLARC? Do not get me started on the Conspirators Larking About Regulatory Crap
Cynical Pilot is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2014, 16:14
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Asia
Age: 37
Posts: 115
Industry didn't want the changes, the General who did left the boat before it reached the beach. We now have senate inquiry on an extended tea break...anyone seen a leader lately?
Gligg is offline  
Old 16th Nov 2014, 03:02
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Idlewild
Posts: 114
I did a profeiiency check on 15th September

Did mine a few days before that, nothing heard either. Patience.
uncle8 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 03:21
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YLIL
Posts: 239
From CAsA today:

Currently CASA is receiving more applications for licence conversions than can be managed immediately. Applications are being prioritised so those pilots who have a need to convert their licence to Part 61 are not disadvantaged.

CASA is doing everything possible to keep up with the demand for new licences.
Who'd have thought that might be an issue - the whole Part 61 has been a planning shambles right from the start, and now this.
triton140 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 03:29
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,364
"the whole Part 61 has been a planning shambles right from the start, and now this."...,

and you just know, deep in your bones, that the best is yet to come!!
thorn bird is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 20:23
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Toowoomba
Posts: 120
Seems like the best thing CASA could do is format the hard drives of all their PCs and start again. That way all mention and knowledge of Part 61 will be expunged.
Fire all the people who had anything to do with it. Investigate if they can have their wages clawed back as they were clearly incompetent. Fire whoever approved hiring them too.
What an utter shambles.
Eyrie is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 21:06
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Centre
Age: 37
Posts: 89

No need to stress, it's SNAFU. It will only take about 5 years to get all this sorted, CASA will then change their name again along with the licence format. CASA will be broken up to and partially privatised make it cheaper to run. The Privatisation and renaming will only cost 70 billion dollars and be entirely funded by direct cost to the industry.

To much to expect a plastic credit card device with all information chipped (Medical included) and maybe even the long promised (Not just a photocopied insert) photo licence?

A progressive organisation would have had this years ago. The photo licence could then be used as a security pass instead of the ASIC.

Now you have to carry your licence, current medical, ASIC and photo ID.

As an aside, what do you folks do with the reams of paperwork they call a licence now? The old one with the plastic pockets for inserts doesn't work, if you insert the quarter sheets the print comes off on the plastic and makes in unreadable. Sort of self defeating if you have to get the paper out of the pockets to read it.
Neville Nobody is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 22:56
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: space
Posts: 261
I have a sheet of tracing paper around each page before slipping it into the plastic sleeves. You can still read it and no ink transfer onto the plastic.
Stupid thing is I should not have to do this. A photo credit card licence with chip like the FAA ones would solve all this mess.
zanthrus is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 23:02
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YLIL
Posts: 239
Instead of tracing paper, I use a cut down sheet protector to stop the print coming off on the plastic.

What a disgrace that we have to do this in the 21st century!
triton140 is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2014, 06:34
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 92
Remember, CASA's own guides on ramp checks say you can carry the licence and medical in an electronic format. Just scan and put it in your phone or tablet.
Draggertail is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.