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Bankstown Airport – Desperately Sad

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Bankstown Airport – Desperately Sad

Old 9th Oct 2014, 12:55
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Couldn't agree more.

Flew into YSBK last weekend, and noted just how run down it is. It is surely too busy to sell it off, but perhaps there is a major redevelopment on the cards (think publicrivate partnership with a reduction in footprint in return for improvement in facilities?)

I must say many Australian airports seem a bit run down in my recent experience - closed restaurants, shops, flying schools and terminals, and a feeling that things were busier in the past. I guess it's expected that the industry will remodel as interests and demographics change, but as a young person who has only recently learned to fly - I can't help but wonder what exactly the future will hold.

Looking around my local flying club, I'm 25, and I think the next oldest 'serious' private pilot would be late 40s. Lots of teenagers seem to come in for trial flights though. Most active club members seem to be in their late 60s/70s. Going through my training, it wasn't all very fun - but the reasons for this were never about cost. The instructors seemed burned out, and very pessimistic about the world / especially GA. I've noted this seems to be the case, especially on this site. Every question is answered in part by a stab at CASA, at prices, at regulations, at people who had 'wronged' the club. GA seems a negative place, in my short time in it! And it's actually a turn off, because I fly for fun, and don't like to spend my weekend being negative about stuff.

I enjoy going for a fly, and seeing new places, and persisted long enough to qualify for my PPL, but the excitement, the allure, the adventure, was not sold through the training. And I don't think that the glory days of GA are behind us

So perhaps my experience is in part representative of others, and might help explain why YSBK's paint is peeling.
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Old 9th Oct 2014, 12:58
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In principle you were correct (& I wasn't meaning to sound like a smart arse with my comment), it's just that there's been a significant increase in "other" flying training costs since the early 90's - largely due to airport privatisation & "user pays" (thanks Dick!) which has had a major impact on our industry...

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Old 9th Oct 2014, 13:31
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I am told that an hour's flying in 1935 cost about the average weeks wage.... If that is the case it is somewhat cheaper now...!!

Nevertheless it is not cheap any more. I recall hiring a PA32-260 in the late 60's for $22/hr wet....!!
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Old 9th Oct 2014, 13:39
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With respect, I disagree. I recently renewed my expired instructor rating at YPJT (due to the many uncertainties involved with the Part 61 implementation). That exercise - which involved 2.6 hours flying in a C152 (1.3 practice + 1.3 for the test) cost $1030.
In fact you did well. I did the same thing in Melbourne (instructor renewal) which was 1.2 VDO (0.8 actual flight) in a C172 and forked out just under $800 which included ATO fee and $55 for one landing fee. ATC held us at the holding point for 10 minutes awaiting other traffic.

I remember the days when at Moorabbin, a pilot and his Warrior would tout for business at the fence near the tower and the pilot would dress in normal clothes (he wore a cravat I think) without all this white shirt, big wings and three gold bars nonsense. Pay on the spot, no receipt, hop over the fence or go through the gate and get airborne for one circuit. Next please. The kids loved it and some got the flying bug after that.
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Old 9th Oct 2014, 13:45
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1983, at Schofields Flying Club in a then fairly new Piper Warrior:

$86-00 per hour dual and $56-00 solo.

And my instructor was a lot older and wiser than me and didn't wear the silly gear that the young guys do today!

Last edited by gerry111; 9th Oct 2014 at 14:01.
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Old 9th Oct 2014, 14:42
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OK, I can play this game!

Back in the early-mid 70's when I learned to fly, a C172 at Archerfield was $22/hr wet.

My salary was $164/wk - let's call that about 7 x 1hr in a C172!

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Old 9th Oct 2014, 19:54
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Put UP or Shut Up!

For years now I have heard pilots and Aircraft owners explaining about the demise of General Aviation following the leasing of former Commonwealth owned secondary Airports. There is little doubt that ever since that happened we have had a long line of ministers from both parties who left the power at cruise and the autopilot engaged. The current recycled minister is proving once again that nothing has changed. His minder MM has kept many former ministers and the current one secure at the trough.

These people at Archerfield have taken on city hall and are applying pressure not seen before. They are to be commended and deserve our support if only every person who has expressed concern about the selling off of publicly owned airports supported The Archerfield AAT case with just $100 they can and will make a difference. The level of their commitment cannot be doubted !
This $100 will give those contributors more bang for their buck than a 10000 letters to Warren Truss all carefully answered by MM & co
Do It NOW!
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Old 9th Oct 2014, 21:23
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In December 1977 the NZ hourly hire rates where I learnt to fly were - C152 $24; C172 $28.50; C206 $46; PA39 $62.

If I remember correctly, my weekly take home pay was $125.

When I left NZ just 5 years later, in 1982, the rates had soared to - C152 $49.55; C172 $59.10; C206 $101.40; PA39 $136.80.

When I was looking around in 1977, one club was advertising a PPL for $1,287.50, based on average required hours. Another had a Victa 100 for $18/hr, a PA18/150 for $22/hr & a Maule for $30/hr.

These days, you would struggle to find any of these types to hire, except of course, for the 172.
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Old 9th Oct 2014, 22:34
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In real terms I think it is cheaper to learn to fly now than it was when I started. My first job (a very long time ago at the callow age of 16) I was earning the princely sum of $21 per week.The hire cost for the PA28-140 was $14 per hour dual and $11 per hour solo.

After board was removed I could only afford to do an hour a fortnight. I doubt that the hire cost today would be nearly 66% of ones salary but I do recognise that people probably have less disposable income today than I did then.

However, the aircraft I flew was purchased new and it was replaced with new. The then Dept. of Civil Aviation provided all of my documents (except the WAC) for free and there were no landing fees or air navigation charges. I could actually go and talk to a met and briefing officer and there were helpful people called Flight Service Officers at a whole heap of airports, none of which exists today.

You try and tell that to the young people of today and they won't believe you (in best Yorkshire accent).
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Old 9th Oct 2014, 23:08
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Looksherry! Our Aeroclub used to be a shoebox in the middle o’ the rowed!
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Old 9th Oct 2014, 23:13
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It seems most of you lament the old days where there were no landing charges or ANCs etc.

BUT we still paid.

I can remember in the mid/late 1980s when I had to pay out something in the order of 30,000 for the registration of my C550 each year. Once paid then you cold fly to your hearts content.

The figures for aircraft hire quoted in this forum for way back then reflected this annual registration cost broken down to hourly.

Still most here are right, coming from a aviation marketing back ground most smaller aviation businesses don't have a clue how to promote their enterprise.

A good example is Bankstown, I am currently trying to persuade my Rotary Club to hold a flying open day with the proceeds going to a deserving charity here. But when you talk to business on the airport they all appear dis interested.
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Old 9th Oct 2014, 23:20
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User pays is a necessity.

Otherwise they’d have to levy income tax, fuel excise, GST, Medicare levy, Medicare surcharge, flood levy, budget emergency levy etc. Oh wait….
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 00:17
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someone has to pay for all those extremely overpaid & extremely underworked public servants, we don't need & never did need.
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 00:58
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Alchemy101 are you learning at a club north of Sydney by about 43nm by chance?
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 01:56
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User Pays

probably not just an aviation issue.

Once upon a time we paid taxes and in return our government provided us with services.

Today we pay taxes, GST, plus almost every government service requires a fee be paid.

Governments don't build anything anymore, they charge a fee to someone for the privilege of building something and them charging us to use it. They also flog off every public asset they can find, which we then have to pay a fee to use.

I'm really wondering when parliament house will be flogged off to the chinese and rented back to us. If truth be told probably has already.

Last edited by thorn bird; 10th Oct 2014 at 02:10.
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 04:29
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CAR42ZE - with respect - your numbers finish at the start of the "Indian" training boom.

I would be curious to see the numbers to the end of 2013... that graph will have turned downwards sharply I reckon.
It's rather telling that CAR42ZE's supplied graph is the current one on CAsA' s website.

2006! Goodness, isn't it now 2014?
Sorry gents! Should have mentioned it came from: Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Aircraft on the register, 1928 to 2006 I stumbled across it the other week when I was looking at available marks on the register.

I didn't know about the Indian training boom, I've only got a half-foot in GA. And yes, it does not surprise me it hasn't been updated lately. I'm sure our friends in CAsA are busy sticking their beaks into someones operations (please don't hurt me CAsA, I was only audited last December!)
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 06:44
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The average deposable income has shrunk with the cost of housing power water etc. so for the average person now the cost has flown out the window. To commit to go for a fly when all other cost are so high it hard to justify. The cost of maintenance is relatively cheap per hourly rate. It cost more per service of your car than an aircraft. Most traders are dearer as we'll. the cost of paper work in regards to parts and traceability insurance liability hasn't help as we'll. Maint org now having to pay comercail rates for space is also making the cost of owning and renting an aircraft high as we'll. answers we'll I don't think there is any. There will always be a GA industry here in aust but as a for pleasure of just going for a fly I think your time is limited.
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 08:36
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No offence, but why would I give me hard-earned to the Archerfield Chamber of Commerce who says the Archerfield Master Plan "is solely an industrial land grab by AAC", and yet AAC claims they just spent over $4 million on developing the airports first onsite aviation student accommodation facility??


It doesn't sound like much of an industrial land grab to me, and certainly not something someone would do if they were trying to close down an airport! (unless that's just what they want us to believe before they bring in the bulldozers!!)
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 10:23
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Well v1aviator,
guess your happy to see Archerfield become an industrial estate, the loan sharks and property developers win and everyone who wants to commit aviation move to Toowoomba.
Well old mate, wait till you see the corruption that has occurred at Bankstown.
Property developer = organised crime = corruption. Same formular all over the world, ever heard the name obeid?
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 11:13
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I know this is about YSBK, but given the general area...

just heard Aeropelican landing fees... $200 ?????
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