Flight through Military Restricted RA2
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Flight through Military Restricted RA2
From AIP ENR 1.4 para 5.3.2.2
When the restricted area is deactivated by NOTAM timings, would one assume that it is then okay to flight plan through RA2?
RA CONDITIONAL STATUS LEGEND:
Conditional Status RA1: Pilots may flight plan through the Restric- ted Area and under normal circumstances expect a clearance from ATC.
Conditional Status RA2: Pilots must not flight plan through the Restricted Area unless on a route specified in ERSA GEN FPR or under agreement with the Department of Defence, however a clearance from ATC is not assured. Other tracking may be offered through the Restricted Area on a tactical basis.
Conditional Status RA3: Pilots must not flight plan through the Restricted Area and clearances will not be available.
Conditional Status RA1: Pilots may flight plan through the Restric- ted Area and under normal circumstances expect a clearance from ATC.
Conditional Status RA2: Pilots must not flight plan through the Restricted Area unless on a route specified in ERSA GEN FPR or under agreement with the Department of Defence, however a clearance from ATC is not assured. Other tracking may be offered through the Restricted Area on a tactical basis.
Conditional Status RA3: Pilots must not flight plan through the Restricted Area and clearances will not be available.
You cannot plan to fly through RA2 airspace nor can you use an airfield inside that airspace as an alternate when that airspace is active
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None of these conditions apply if the restricted area is not active. Put another way, if the area is not active then it is not a restricted area, so
you may flight plan through a non active restricted area.
you may flight plan through a non active restricted area.
Gawd, has it really got this bad?
You may not only plan though the bloody thing, you may fly through the bloody thing. It's not active!
(Crossed posts with U8: He is correct.)
You may not only plan though the bloody thing, you may fly through the bloody thing. It's not active!
(Crossed posts with U8: He is correct.)
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The question stems from an experience I had, where despite the NOTAM stating otherwise, the RA2 was activated at short notice.
I checked the ATIS prior to entering (as I always do) and realised the RA2 was now active. I requested and received a clearance, but then got a polite reminder that flight planning through the airspace is not permitted.
I didn't have the effort to argue over the radio that they were deactive when my plan went into NAIPs 2 hours earlier...
I checked the ATIS prior to entering (as I always do) and realised the RA2 was now active. I requested and received a clearance, but then got a polite reminder that flight planning through the airspace is not permitted.
I didn't have the effort to argue over the radio that they were deactive when my plan went into NAIPs 2 hours earlier...
Last edited by 5-in-50; 23rd Sep 2014 at 11:47.
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That's interesting, depending on the time between checking the notams and approaching the restricted area.
If it was a short time then I think it would constitute a hazard alert and ATC would be obliged to make appropriate broadcasts and be alert for those, such as you, who were operating on obsolete info.
If it was longer, then you should check again, as you did.
Some deactivation notams that I have seen in the past, point out that activation, during the deactivation period, is an option but I can't find one that says that now. Might be in the AIP or ERSA.
If it was a short time then I think it would constitute a hazard alert and ATC would be obliged to make appropriate broadcasts and be alert for those, such as you, who were operating on obsolete info.
If it was longer, then you should check again, as you did.
Some deactivation notams that I have seen in the past, point out that activation, during the deactivation period, is an option but I can't find one that says that now. Might be in the AIP or ERSA.
Last edited by uncle8; 23rd Sep 2014 at 12:44.
Orright, kiddies,
When you are getting your weather briefings, get the location brief with the codes such as OKX for Oakey, AMX for Amberley, RIX for Richmond (see a pattern?) and you will have the notamed planned activies for these airspaces.
Can't see any reason why ATC would get upset if your plan was outside these times.
When you are getting your weather briefings, get the location brief with the codes such as OKX for Oakey, AMX for Amberley, RIX for Richmond (see a pattern?) and you will have the notamed planned activies for these airspaces.
Can't see any reason why ATC would get upset if your plan was outside these times.
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This topic might sound silly to some of the participants here but in my experience there are a lot of questions about this concept. I queried a FOI about it, once, and he told me that it had raised more questions than it had answered. I queried him because a CFI at a country flying school had told me that it was illegal to fly through an adjacent R area, even though the R area was deactive.
I thanked him for his advice but thought bulls**t. Called the centre airborne, they said it was deactive so flew right through the guts of it. Gave me a boner to do that. Doesn't happen that often these days.
I thanked him for his advice but thought bulls**t. Called the centre airborne, they said it was deactive so flew right through the guts of it. Gave me a boner to do that. Doesn't happen that often these days.
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This has Williamtown restricted areas (WMX) written all over it...it's not uncommon to get a notam amending/extending activation hours, often at very short notice.
If not notam'd active, plan through it however you want, and if in doubt, call your friendly (?) centre controller.
I suspect a confusing factor may be danger areas that are in proximity to restricted areas...
If not notam'd active, plan through it however you want, and if in doubt, call your friendly (?) centre controller.
I suspect a confusing factor may be danger areas that are in proximity to restricted areas...
This is one of the many reasons for monitoring Area frequency.
Some Romeos can be activated at short notice. Have a look at AIP ENR 1.4, and GEN 3.3-2.5.1(g).
Some Romeos can be activated at short notice. Have a look at AIP ENR 1.4, and GEN 3.3-2.5.1(g).
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The question stems from an experience I had, where despite the NOTAM stating otherwise, the RA2 was activated at short notice.
I checked the ATIS prior to entering (as I always do) and realised the RA2 was now active. I requested and received a clearance, but then got a polite reminder that flight planning through the airspace is not permitted.
I didn't have the effort to argue over the radio that they were deactive when my plan went into NAIPs 2 hours earlier...
I checked the ATIS prior to entering (as I always do) and realised the RA2 was now active. I requested and received a clearance, but then got a polite reminder that flight planning through the airspace is not permitted.
I didn't have the effort to argue over the radio that they were deactive when my plan went into NAIPs 2 hours earlier...
If the effect of the NOTAMs you reviewed was that the area was deactivated, and Centre didn’t provide ATC initiated FIS in accordance with AIP GEN 3.3 2.5.1g by telling you the area had been reactivated at short notice and contrary to the NOTAM, the system has, subject to one possible exception, failed you. The one possible exception is if the AIP info for the specific Romeo says that irrespective of the area being NOTAMed deactivated, pilots proposing to fly through the area must confirm status with Centre immediately prior to entry.
I'm surprised to hear someone suggest that we need to check the status immediately before entering the airspace, it would make for very heavy radio traffic around the Woomera areas.
I think you'll find that "the old system PRD" still exists. RA status is just about active Restricted Areas and provides more flexibility.
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According to AIP Gen., the ATC FIS service is normally limited to "aircraft within one hour of the condition" which might explain why they didn't tell you. i.e. the R area may have been reactivated shortly after your plan submission.
This also emphasises the importance of reviewing pre flight information as close as possible to departure time - the FIS service relies on it although it is not always practical for a pilot. We could all use a flight following service where a dedicated person keeps an eye on operational matters, such as this, and ensures that the info is passed to the pilot or an iPad to review items an hour or more ahead.
This also emphasises the importance of reviewing pre flight information as close as possible to departure time - the FIS service relies on it although it is not always practical for a pilot. We could all use a flight following service where a dedicated person keeps an eye on operational matters, such as this, and ensures that the info is passed to the pilot or an iPad to review items an hour or more ahead.
Last edited by uncle8; 24th Sep 2014 at 04:29. Reason: include ipad
But would ATC really sit and watch an aircraft in Class C tracking towards an active Romeo that had become active recently and earlier than as specified in NOTAMS?
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Yes they would.
After one hour passes, the ATC is not obliged to tell the pilot. The ATC can forget that there was a deactivation/reactivation (but not that the airspace is active) after the hour and, on handing over to a new shift, may not even mention the occurrence.
It is up to the pilot to receive the information himself - ask the ATC, listen to the ATIS, dial up the iPad notams.
In this case he had left C airspace 20 minutes earlier and ATC might have seen him heading towards the area but would be expecting him to know of the activation and to arrange a clearance, which he did.
After one hour passes, the ATC is not obliged to tell the pilot. The ATC can forget that there was a deactivation/reactivation (but not that the airspace is active) after the hour and, on handing over to a new shift, may not even mention the occurrence.
It is up to the pilot to receive the information himself - ask the ATC, listen to the ATIS, dial up the iPad notams.
In this case he had left C airspace 20 minutes earlier and ATC might have seen him heading towards the area but would be expecting him to know of the activation and to arrange a clearance, which he did.
Last edited by uncle8; 24th Sep 2014 at 06:22.
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If the R area is embedded in the class C and you are operating IFR or VFR in the class C with a clearance, then it must be assumed that ATC have conducted the appropriate co-ord for you to transit thr R area (if active). A similar situation I suggest exists if the R area abuts the class C, but with a ongoing clearance (or not) provided by the C controller. If you are IFR in class E then it should be the same. If you are VFR in E or G then you have to facilitate the ongoing cnce yourself. Step 1 in that case is to ask ATC .... ALWAYS. What you do next depend on the answer.
The industry including your industry association (if you are a member of one) wouldn't agree. The introduction of the conditional status was widely supported because it made access likelihood clear and therefore assisted flight planning, and is in accordance with the principle of flexible use airspace.
RA3 areas tend to be live firing, which in most cases can be knocked off in the event of an aircraft experiencing an emergency. In some cases e.g. Puckapunyal, for URGMED flights or in the event of diversions due TS, to assist ATC traffic management the Army often hold activity.
With Prohibited Areas (and we don't have any), aircraft are not permitted under any circumstances. Full stop.
RA3 areas tend to be live firing, which in most cases can be knocked off in the event of an aircraft experiencing an emergency. In some cases e.g. Puckapunyal, for URGMED flights or in the event of diversions due TS, to assist ATC traffic management the Army often hold activity.
With Prohibited Areas (and we don't have any), aircraft are not permitted under any circumstances. Full stop.