The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

A question for employers

Old 24th Sep 2014, 05:07
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Aimlessly wandering
Posts: 172
If one can demonstrate a successful cross wind landing above the maximum published, wouldn't that constitute the new "demonstrated" maximum?

Sticking to topic though, having seen every operator in Sydney and getting absolutely nothing, I'm stuck where to go from here. Living in a top end caravan park is out of the question, so what now?

It appears the situation is no different in Queensland or Victoria.
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 05:21
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Harai Goshi
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50 50..find yourself a great job outside of aviation..find a syndicate and buy a plane..you will get so many more enjoyable hours and probably have more money left over.

I did this..love the part time instructing..and still enough money at the end of the week.
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 06:59
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Thanks Daz, good advice. I guess I have to re-evaluate where this can take me.

I have a good job outside aviation, and am seriously thinking purchase may be the only option left. I would love part time instructing and have my instructor rating. Can't even get a day every second weekend to make me feel like I haven't wasted 100K.

Last edited by 50 50; 24th Sep 2014 at 07:12.
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 07:15
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sydney
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For those that asked (and others that think otherwise) - per the current award - Casual Grade 3 is $60.66 per flying hour ($19.91 per hour - not flying hour - if they're part-time).

No idea why it's mainly per flying hour that gets paid but that's the way it is. RA instructors are not included in the award as it starts with the base pay being that of a Grade 3 instructor.

Once they prove competence and commitment they're generally offered a full-time position. Also no avenue for lax instructing - the CFI's always looking over their shoulder and runs an extremely tight ship.

For those that think the industry sucks - read up a bit on the economic theory of "supply and demand". As i said before the school has advertised for positions in the past and received 40-odd applications from Grade 3's... It's also a simple fact that the award rate is a lot more than many schools out there pay - and the school's that try to do things right are competing with them.

Last edited by pokeydokey; 24th Sep 2014 at 07:53.
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 08:30
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: nosar
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Well I will be the first to eat a bit of humble pie, it appears as I can see it: For a grade three with less than 300 hours TT $47.00 per hour with a minimum of two hours pay per shift rising a tad when the instructor reaches 300 hours total time and rising again when they gain their first 100 hours of instruction, to a grade two rate.

I guess your pay is pretty good Pokey ... Unless I am looking at the wrong award.

I got the award here

Last edited by Aussie Bob; 24th Sep 2014 at 08:32. Reason: Link to award
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 09:02
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 31
Thanks AussieBob. The school's only relatively small and the owner has worked pretty hard to be able to afford to pay the award rates.

That's the old award though - rates have changed a little. New award is at:

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/doc...f/MA000046.pdf
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 09:11
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
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In NZ the minimum pay is I think $13.50/hr. Lots of flying schools hire people on a casual basis and can get away with paying for just the time in the air. No pay for briefs. Only ground school pay is tutoring for theory exams.

Most flying schools offer a wee bit more though..around $20 per flying hour..but are still expected to be around the hangar all day. Grocery money really..this is why so many kiwis hop over to Oz and jump for joy at the pay rates over there.
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Old 2nd Oct 2014, 07:13
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
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And how would everyone get to the 500hrs then...all self funded?
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Old 2nd Oct 2014, 09:12
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
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And how would everyone get to the 500hrs then...all self funded?
No, they would get a job (if they were any good) or they would fail, or Daddy would buy them the hours.

It seems to work in Helicopter world.

It would increase the standard of instructing immeasurably because the only guys who get the rating would be guys who WANT the rating, AND they would have the hours to back it up.

No more 200-hour seat-warmer Grade Threes who are lttle more than a safety pilot and frankly, probably not much good even for that.
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Old 2nd Oct 2014, 13:00
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the land of smog
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We are done with instructors lately, and unless you really stand out instructors will now get binned, as we are finding lots of bad habits and attitudes in ex instructors.
Having done instructing, freight, charter and airline flying I'm curious to know what makes instructors so unsuitable for charter work these days...?
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Old 2nd Oct 2014, 13:29
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
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I can't answer for the guy you're quoting, TIO, but:

There seems to be something about spending every day being the Font of All Aviation Wisdom that - for some people - doesn't translate very well into a work situation (such as charter and an airline cockpit) where you need to be a bit more humble, receptive, curious.

It doesn't apply to all instructors by any means.... but it is common enough.

Just an observation
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Old 2nd Oct 2014, 13:30
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Aimlessly wandering
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Normally I agree with Horatio, but this time I will digress.

I don't have quite 500 hours (450) but I did have a job, that is, until I asked where my pay was. Thankyou very much Warren Gengos.

I have the rating, I do want to teach, and I am almost completely self funded. Not that there are any funds left.

Unfortunately 200 hour rich children are they only one that can afford to be exploited for a couple of years. In the current climate I could offer to pay for work and still get knocked back.

Last edited by 50 50; 2nd Oct 2014 at 13:58.
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Old 2nd Oct 2014, 20:29
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Harai Goshi
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"Font of All Aviation Wisdom that - for some people - doesn't translate very well into a work situation (such as charter and an airline cockpit) where you need to be a bit more humble, receptive, curious."

Just general life skills that are all too often missing..

If you did any job but only used that job to get somewhere else you will never have 100% commitment to that job. I saw it all too often in the IT world. I would employ people onto a help desk and 2 weeks later they were wanting to be network/server admin. They never cared about the initial job. Same applies for the majority of instructors. Most flying schools are now factories..the vast majority of instructors just want to fly something bigger/faster/better or get paid so little of course there is no love for what they do.
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