Prang at mudgee 14/9/14, 2 dead
all it takes is an unforecast increase in headwind component, a slight dirtying of the airframe, or some pitting of the propeller paint or flying with the balance ball slightly off centre and said cautious pilot may find himself not quite making the circuit.
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Fuel Planning
I absolutely agree with the sentiments of Username Here. For anyone to plan Flight Fuel only with no Reserves is unthinkable. We have no evidence that fuel exhaustion was a factor on this tragic event. In fact, we have no evidence. Let us wait for the experts to determine the cause or probable cause and then comment.
all it takes is an unforecast increase in headwind component, a slight dirtying of the airframe, or some pitting of the propeller paint or flying with the balance ball slightly off centre and said cautious pilot may find himself not quite making the circuit.
Fuel Planning
I absolutely agree with the sentiments of Username Here. For anyone to plan Flight Fuel only with no Reserves is unthinkable. We have no evidence that fuel exhaustion was a factor on this tragic event. In fact, we have no evidence. Let us wait for the experts to determine the cause or probable cause and then comment.
I absolutely agree with the sentiments of Username Here. For anyone to plan Flight Fuel only with no Reserves is unthinkable. We have no evidence that fuel exhaustion was a factor on this tragic event. In fact, we have no evidence. Let us wait for the experts to determine the cause or probable cause and then comment.
Thread Starter
"Company minimum" is a bit different to "nil reserves" 
Last edited by Horatio Leafblower; 15th Sep 2014 at 05:57. Reason: Fat fingers
....ah yes, Blyesky, but "company minimum fuel" is not the same as "no reserves" is it?
Last edited by ravan; 15th Sep 2014 at 06:03. Reason: Horatio beat me by a whisker.
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Fuel Planning
Blueskymine, I don't know what your qualifications are but I can tell you I am not in the least surprised that airlines carry only fuel needed to meet legal requirements which certainly does not mean arriving at destination without reserve fuel plus alternate if required. To carry any more than required adds to fuel burn due to the added weight and, in some instances, would reduce payload availability where performance means a TOW below MTOW permissable for the aircraft.
Mr. Banjo, your interpretation of "took out a fence" is vastly different to mine and others. The fence is mostly in tact with seemingly all posts accounted for. It is abundantly clear that it lacked forward speed at impact otherwise it would be largely survivable.
That being said someone told me that the fence was cut to allow emergency services access, but that is un-verified.
That being said someone told me that the fence was cut to allow emergency services access, but that is un-verified.
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The shots from the local TV news appear to show upward bending of the nose and wings, that would be consistent with high vertical forces, wondering though with the proximity of the trees a branch has impacted with the canopy, helping to wipe a lot off forward speed and causing the injuries... Just thinking out loud...
I was waiting for the link to be drawn regarding the passenger not being in the aircraft when crews arrived, that makes sense, thank you for the information. That makes it double the tragedy really, a terrible way to go.
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I guess its entirely possible the pilot had an onset of cardiac arrest on the approach, that made him lose control - but then he could have climbed out and had the full-on heart attack or stroke, just outside the aircraft.
The shock of a high G crash landing also just might have loosened some clot that then moved into a major heart or brain artery? I'm no medic, but "embolism" rings a bell. I believe it's not unknown to also have an elderly partner suffer a cardiac arrest, when they see their partner have a cardiac event.
Arterial embolism: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia
The shock of a high G crash landing also just might have loosened some clot that then moved into a major heart or brain artery? I'm no medic, but "embolism" rings a bell. I believe it's not unknown to also have an elderly partner suffer a cardiac arrest, when they see their partner have a cardiac event.
Arterial embolism: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia
Unthinkable enough that every airliner you step foot on plans company minimum fuel at destination airport.
Only about half of the airline flights I am on have "company minimum fuel at destination" and if they do have "company minimum fuel at destination" , they have over an hour of reserve.
Back on topic, hopefully something can be learned from the investigation. Until then, my condolences to those who knew them.
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The same condolences from us. Truly tragic.
I understand the fence was cut by emergency services.
We can only echo what had been said before - They died doing what they loved doing. Amen.
I understand the fence was cut by emergency services.
We can only echo what had been said before - They died doing what they loved doing. Amen.
Last edited by Stanwell; 15th Sep 2014 at 17:27.
If it was a stall/spin, it is noted that in pommieland , stall warners are required to be fitted to the rv6. Theres not a lot of warning in that type of aircraft....not required in US/OZ.
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RV characteristics
I did some test flight engineering on a friend's RV6 quite a while ago(one of the last under 101.28), helped with some flight tests and subsequently did a tailwheel endorsement in the aircraft. I've also flown an RV7A.
Some observations:
The RV6/7 had a weakness in that the longerons in the cockpit area could fail under crash loads and the cockpit area fold up. Daffyd Llewellyn designed a fix in the form of some steel tube added in that area.
The NACA 23012/23015 series airfoils used have an abrupt stall. Stall on the RV6 at gross was 52KIAS clean and 49KIAS with full flap. The airspeed system was honest (measured by GPS and IAS to TAS technique).
No aerodynamic stall warning. Pitch down and wing drop.
The RV6 with O-360 CS prop and a nice paint job but no excessive panel bling was 505Kg empty. Max Gross is 726kg. A model (nosewheel has I think another 50 lbs or 23 Kg) Doesn't leave much disposable for 140 liters of fuel, people and bags.
I suspect most RV6s are flown over designer's gross at takeoff when flown two up unless fitted with O-320 and fixed pitch wooden prop.
Some observations:
The RV6/7 had a weakness in that the longerons in the cockpit area could fail under crash loads and the cockpit area fold up. Daffyd Llewellyn designed a fix in the form of some steel tube added in that area.
The NACA 23012/23015 series airfoils used have an abrupt stall. Stall on the RV6 at gross was 52KIAS clean and 49KIAS with full flap. The airspeed system was honest (measured by GPS and IAS to TAS technique).
No aerodynamic stall warning. Pitch down and wing drop.
The RV6 with O-360 CS prop and a nice paint job but no excessive panel bling was 505Kg empty. Max Gross is 726kg. A model (nosewheel has I think another 50 lbs or 23 Kg) Doesn't leave much disposable for 140 liters of fuel, people and bags.
I suspect most RV6s are flown over designer's gross at takeoff when flown two up unless fitted with O-320 and fixed pitch wooden prop.
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Engine/Prop
The accident aircraft was a tail-wheeled model with 0-320 and fixed pitch wooden propeller. If the aircraft departed Dubbo it is only a short flight to Mudgee and I doubt fuel exhaustion would have been a factor, although I have seen no evidence for or against.
An earlier poster suggested that there was ample fuel left on-board.
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I knew Terry for many years and flew with him in this aircraft on several occasions.
He was a careful and prudent pilot, though not 'overlycautious'. he flew the aircraft often after getting it in the air and was serious about learning to fly it correctly. He was a good planner and not a risk taker, the aircraft was well constructed and nicely finished.
I am surprised, and saddened, of course. They were part of a small crew that really enjoy putting some air under the wings on fly aways, and a larger social crew at YLTV. Their loss is one that is being felt strongly.
HD
He was a careful and prudent pilot, though not 'overlycautious'. he flew the aircraft often after getting it in the air and was serious about learning to fly it correctly. He was a good planner and not a risk taker, the aircraft was well constructed and nicely finished.
I am surprised, and saddened, of course. They were part of a small crew that really enjoy putting some air under the wings on fly aways, and a larger social crew at YLTV. Their loss is one that is being felt strongly.
HD