Do I really need an ADF endorsement?
So I was right for 19 years & wrong this last year?? Or wrong for 20 years and just didn't know it?? Or just right for 20 years and you are wrong??
Let me try that again!
Earlier this year I did my IR renewal with my usual muchly experienced ATO.
ATO: You can use the AP during the flight, including approaches, but you have to hand fly one approach.
Dr: You have never told me that before!
ATO: Its always been that way! I just assumed you loved hand flying the sweetest flying aeroplane ever made.
Dr: Thanks for nothing! OK, I'll hand fly the ILS!
(OK, so maybe I made up the "sweetest flying aeroplane" bit!)
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Would anyone recommend or condone the use of a gps in lieu of an adf in a ndb approach?
I believe overlays are legal in the States?
Would anyone recommend or condone the use of a gps in lieu of an adf in a ndb approach?
Maybe we can get Dick onto that one too!
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 7th Sep 2014 at 10:05.
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My comments regarding use of the autopilot DONOT refer to the legalities of use of it in a test or renewal. My comments refer to whether the ATO would be happy letting you use the autopilot. My initial issue was no autopilot for either enroute or approaches. He wanted to see me track via NDB/ADF and fly every approach. None of my renewals have I used the autopilot.
Nosewheel, on your initial issue plan on not using the autopilot on any of the approaches, he may allow enroute
Nosewheel, on your initial issue plan on not using the autopilot on any of the approaches, he may allow enroute
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Would anyone recommend or condone the use of a gps in lieu of an adf in a ndb approach?
As I understand it - legal in the US, not so in Oz.
As I understand it - legal in the US, not so in Oz.
CASA 157/14 - Instructions ? GNSS as primary means of navigation for NDB and VOR (overlay) approach (Qantas Airways Limited)
Nosewheel, on your initial issue plan on not using the autopilot on any of the approaches, he may allow enroute
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Legal here too - if you're Qantas!
It's a pity if NDB approaches are going to disappear. They are a lot of fun and very satisfying when you get them right. They're a good test of instrument flying skills,
But we had more fun in my day when undergoing the annual instrument rating test in a venerable RAAF Dakota at the RAAF Central Flying School at East Sale. Much of the test was on limited panel since the suction gyro driven artificial horizons and directional gyros of that era would topple at over 55 degrees angle of bank
The NDB approach was conducted as a single pilot operation, with one propeller feathered, no autopilot, no artificial horizon (limited panel) and using the manual loop in aural null mode. For those unfamiliar what that meant it meant one hand in the cockpit roof twiddling a rotating knob while listening intently into your headset for an aural null when the loop aerial was 90 degrees to the radio beacon. It wasn’t an automatic direction finder for the exercise.
Of course we all knew it was a far-fetched useless exercise but if nothing else it was a wonderful instrument scanning exercise and many of us retained that basic scanning skill into airline flying.
As the man said in the highlight, NDB approaches were very satisfying when you got them right. I’ll go along with that.
Did my renewal a few months ago. The only AP use was holding over MB and getting vectored onto the EN ILS.
What I want to know is which of the rather old GA aircraft I have done a renewal in have been capable of flying coupled approaches?
What I want to know is which of the rather old GA aircraft I have done a renewal in have been capable of flying coupled approaches?
Would anyone recommend or condone the use of a gps in lieu of an adf in a ndb approach?
I believe overlays are legal in the States?
This method does work well and I have used this to back up the fixed card ADF indications. I believe one of the Air NZ Link operators used to select the No2 EHSI pointer to the GPS on the non flying pilots side to monitor the accuracy of the ADF signal.
I doubt it's legal to us the GPS bearing pointer as your primary means of shooting an NDB approach. If you did use the GPS waypoint as a back up you do need to be very very sure that you have the correct waypoint as the active waypoint on the GPS.
It's not like an NDB where if you got the wrong frequency it's highly unlikely you'll get a a valid signal plus you should be monitoring the morse signal anyway. A bearing pointer selected to GPS will pointer very nicely no matter what waypoint is active.
No problem.
The US was quite big on overlays a while back not sure they are anymore, perhaps they are. I'm not aware of any overlays being used in other parts of the world.
If I recall correctly one issue with the overlay was the GPS didn't scale at the final fix, in some cases there was no final fix any way.
The US was quite big on overlays a while back not sure they are anymore, perhaps they are. I'm not aware of any overlays being used in other parts of the world.
If I recall correctly one issue with the overlay was the GPS didn't scale at the final fix, in some cases there was no final fix any way.
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From CASA...
Thank you for your email about overlay approaches. Advice below from CASA’s airways section:
CASA legisltaive instrument 157/14 CASA 157/14 - Instructions ? GNSS as primary means of navigation for NDB and VOR (overlay) approach (Qantas Airways Limited)
permits an overlay approach because it is approved by the aircraft manufacturer and that capability is included in the Aircraft Flight Manual. If your aircraft has that capability and it is included in the flight manual then he would be able to apply to CASA for an approval.
The explanatory statement in CASA 157/14 has the following:
“The current GNSS rules allow the use of GNSS for primary means navigation under I.F.R. and Visual Flight Rules. In addition, modern RNP-capable aircraft have provisions in their flight manual that allow non-precision approaches using RNP capabilities of the aircraft without the specific approach aid being installed in the aircraft. This instrument contains instructions that allow Qantas Airways Limited (the operator) to reduce dependence on ground-based systems.”
CASA legisltaive instrument 157/14 CASA 157/14 - Instructions ? GNSS as primary means of navigation for NDB and VOR (overlay) approach (Qantas Airways Limited)
permits an overlay approach because it is approved by the aircraft manufacturer and that capability is included in the Aircraft Flight Manual. If your aircraft has that capability and it is included in the flight manual then he would be able to apply to CASA for an approval.
The explanatory statement in CASA 157/14 has the following:
“The current GNSS rules allow the use of GNSS for primary means navigation under I.F.R. and Visual Flight Rules. In addition, modern RNP-capable aircraft have provisions in their flight manual that allow non-precision approaches using RNP capabilities of the aircraft without the specific approach aid being installed in the aircraft. This instrument contains instructions that allow Qantas Airways Limited (the operator) to reduce dependence on ground-based systems.”
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I was practicing for my renewal on a G1000 equiped A/C a while ago. I used the GPS to overlay the tracks on the MFD through the use of the OBS mode. I had the ADF as my primary source. The NDB signal was quite bent, took me initially 10 degrees to the right of track before deciding to swing around putting me out of tolerance within a couple of seconds... I wouldn't be keen to fly the approach with an examiner anymore if its going to do that... will keep my recency flights to the sim.
Flying an RPT Jet with RNP-AR capability and still required to NDB approaches as part of my sim checks. So if you intend to live in Australia I say yes you need it.