Chucking it in
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: oz
Age: 49
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chucking it in
As the title suggests I have had enough. After years of slogging it out in GA sometimes working 2 jobs to pay the bills (sometimes no flying job at all) it's time to realise that even with a few thousand hours it isn't going anywhere.
Australian aviation is in the toilet and getting hired by anyone remotely ethical seems more based on how many people your dad knows at the company as opposed to wether you can fly an aircraft safely and to SOPs.
I've been asked to work for free, told I'm too old (was 28) and even been asked to pay for my own ICUS. All of this for the chance to fly barely airworthy 30 year old pieces of junk. Worst thing is people I trained with did pay for training and worked for free and some are in much better positions than I am now.
I'm tired of poor pay and intimidation from owners who think they know how to better fly an aircraft than the pilot even though they don't even have a PPL!
I am getting as far away from aviation as possible. Who else is coming?
Australian aviation is in the toilet and getting hired by anyone remotely ethical seems more based on how many people your dad knows at the company as opposed to wether you can fly an aircraft safely and to SOPs.
I've been asked to work for free, told I'm too old (was 28) and even been asked to pay for my own ICUS. All of this for the chance to fly barely airworthy 30 year old pieces of junk. Worst thing is people I trained with did pay for training and worked for free and some are in much better positions than I am now.
I'm tired of poor pay and intimidation from owners who think they know how to better fly an aircraft than the pilot even though they don't even have a PPL!
I am getting as far away from aviation as possible. Who else is coming?
Last edited by whentostop; 31st Aug 2014 at 11:59.
Hear you brother!
Been there, done it, walked away 12 years ago and have'nt looked back. I have done all the steps like everyone else, got nowhere. Last resort I have bought an aeroplane, started my own charter business, got paid to see almost every airfield and airport in Australia had lots of fun, almost made some money but at the time I did not care because I was flying.....then came CASA. They have realised that I was too comfortable so lets ground him on technicalities. I could not fight them.....I did not want to. I had enough. Sold my aeroplane and went back to my first trade.
Problem is I still run outside when I hear an aeroplane fly overhead my backyard......Damn aviation....
Been there, done it, walked away 12 years ago and have'nt looked back. I have done all the steps like everyone else, got nowhere. Last resort I have bought an aeroplane, started my own charter business, got paid to see almost every airfield and airport in Australia had lots of fun, almost made some money but at the time I did not care because I was flying.....then came CASA. They have realised that I was too comfortable so lets ground him on technicalities. I could not fight them.....I did not want to. I had enough. Sold my aeroplane and went back to my first trade.
Problem is I still run outside when I hear an aeroplane fly overhead my backyard......Damn aviation....
I've bailed out after close to 20 years, don't miss it at all.
Im still very much an enthusiast though so I've got my (expensive) hobby back.
Just don't let bitterness consume you, there's nothing wrong with changing careers.
Im still very much an enthusiast though so I've got my (expensive) hobby back.
Just don't let bitterness consume you, there's nothing wrong with changing careers.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Earth
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where to though?
My mates out in the real world aren't fairing that much better.
Also lets keep the anecdotes to a minimum. For example "a mate of mine earns $200k after dropping out of high school with no training"
I'm sure things like that have happened but it does not represent the majority of the working population.
My mates out in the real world aren't fairing that much better.
Also lets keep the anecdotes to a minimum. For example "a mate of mine earns $200k after dropping out of high school with no training"
I'm sure things like that have happened but it does not represent the majority of the working population.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: oz
Age: 49
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will probably go back to what I used to do. It's not IT and doesn't pay 200k a year but I get to home every night. I also don't have to justify everything I do to my boss and I get weekends off!
Note it does pay more than an FO gets at Qlink.
Note it does pay more than an FO gets at Qlink.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Earth
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand. If being home every night and having the weekends off is the most important thing to you then that is what you need to do.
Also anyone who thinks IT is any better shape than aviation (for the employees) is kidding themselves.
I'm with you on the bosses though. Lord knows why so many absolute sociopaths owning GA businesses.
Also anyone who thinks IT is any better shape than aviation (for the employees) is kidding themselves.
I'm with you on the bosses though. Lord knows why so many absolute sociopaths owning GA businesses.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
earn a living outside of GA, buy a nce RAAus aircraft, instead of a new car, and fly for fun to keep your sanity.
thats about the only way left to enjoy flying..
thanks CASA:
thats about the only way left to enjoy flying..
thanks CASA:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: YMMB
Age: 58
Posts: 703
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People whine about GA and I keep hearing stories about the mystical mate of a mate who earns $120k a year holding stop signs for road works.
The reality is that it's tough out there.
IT and Accounting are stuffed because of all the overseas visa holders here glad to earn $40k instead of the $4k a year they's earn at home.
Similar situation for manufacturing or retail.
Mining boom has been and gone.
There are way too many teachers, and any jobs are contract or casual.
Quite a few jobs in Aged Care etc, but you'd be wiping wrinkly bums for $18 an hour.
We are heading the USA way, with a shrinking middle class.
Running a GA business is tough, and being mean is probably the only way to survive. Running a GA business would be depressing, knowing you employees don't give a **** about you and are just using you as a stepping stone to the airlines.
The reality is that it's tough out there.
IT and Accounting are stuffed because of all the overseas visa holders here glad to earn $40k instead of the $4k a year they's earn at home.
Similar situation for manufacturing or retail.
Mining boom has been and gone.
There are way too many teachers, and any jobs are contract or casual.
Quite a few jobs in Aged Care etc, but you'd be wiping wrinkly bums for $18 an hour.
We are heading the USA way, with a shrinking middle class.
Running a GA business is tough, and being mean is probably the only way to survive. Running a GA business would be depressing, knowing you employees don't give a **** about you and are just using you as a stepping stone to the airlines.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: oz
Age: 49
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Peter,
Not giving a **** can be a two way street. When your getting paid by the flying hour only yet your employer expects you answer phones in the office when your not flying (working for free) the goodwill disappears quickly. This is why many move on at the first opportunity.
Flying wasn't my first job out of school so I am well aware of the difficulties facing the Australian job market right now. Luckily I won't have to wipe butts as you put it.
Not giving a **** can be a two way street. When your getting paid by the flying hour only yet your employer expects you answer phones in the office when your not flying (working for free) the goodwill disappears quickly. This is why many move on at the first opportunity.
Flying wasn't my first job out of school so I am well aware of the difficulties facing the Australian job market right now. Luckily I won't have to wipe butts as you put it.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Easy calling people whiners Pete when you've never put your arse on the line that these young blokes do. Especially when they refuse to pay for ICUS or work for free.
Problem is I still run outside when I hear an aeroplane fly overhead my backyard......Damn aviation....
DF.
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 59
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I spent 10 years in the aviation wilderness before I finally got my first job. Mostly due to poor decisions by me and getting my licence just before the biggest downturn aviation has seen in my lifetime.
16 years on I'm having a ball.
Before I got a job in aviation I spent a lot of time driving trucks (pretending I was flying), digging post holes (always looking up) and generally just longing to be flying.
If you want it bad enough a good lifestyle is out there to be had, even in GA. Personally I prefer to work weekends, means I get to spend quality one on one time with my kids during the week.
Anyway I'll leave you with this thought: "A bad days flying is better than a good day in just about any other job (bikini inspector and F1 driver excluded)"!
16 years on I'm having a ball.
Before I got a job in aviation I spent a lot of time driving trucks (pretending I was flying), digging post holes (always looking up) and generally just longing to be flying.
If you want it bad enough a good lifestyle is out there to be had, even in GA. Personally I prefer to work weekends, means I get to spend quality one on one time with my kids during the week.
Anyway I'll leave you with this thought: "A bad days flying is better than a good day in just about any other job (bikini inspector and F1 driver excluded)"!
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, that has to be remembered I bailed but it was a fairly easy decision! Some good mates stuck with it & achieved their goals.
Pete hasn't responded to my earlier comment because he knows someone who'll fly for free, pay for endorsements & buy their way into an airline job
I bailed but it was a fairly easy decision! Some good mates stuck with it & achieved their goals.Pete hasn't responded to my earlier comment because he knows someone who'll fly for free, pay for endorsements & buy their way into an airline job
whentostop, I hear you mate. I've had a good run, got a page full of endorsements without paying for any of them and there were tough times in GA for me too. But, I dread to think what it would be like climbing out of a valley now to be trumped by a hundred others who will pay for endorsements and work for free!
If you've come this far, then you've probably been bitten by the bug so you will be looking up. But reality does bite and you've got to pay the bills. If you do chuck it in, maybe consider keeping your Medical. ASIC and DGA valid? There are good gigs out there and you might get one, but you've got to be prepared. You never know what might happen.
If you've come this far, then you've probably been bitten by the bug so you will be looking up. But reality does bite and you've got to pay the bills. If you do chuck it in, maybe consider keeping your Medical. ASIC and DGA valid? There are good gigs out there and you might get one, but you've got to be prepared. You never know what might happen.
In the nineties and noughties it was probably about the same as it had always been before. A couple of bumper years, followed by several years of drought (sex life can also be like that!).
But it does seem that the drought periods are increasing and the good years perhaps gone forever. The steady erosion of GA can be blamed on- in no particular order:
1. too many companies chasing too little business, cutting prices and consequently snivelling on pilot conditions to try and balance their books - this has always been a problem, but is now the worst it's ever been with pilots sometimes expected to pay for their own IR renewals even though they are employed
2. too many pilots prepared to work for nothing and, as above, actually pay for the privilege
3. 40 year old aircraft which are no longer economic to maintain properly and are no longer acceptable to corporate clients; yet there are no affordable replacements - when the latest Baron sells for over a million bucks, who will pay for that?
4. cheap airfares, reasonable services to most regional airports now and much improved vehicles to get to those airports
So why would anyone charter some clapped-out old GA heap at whatever exorbitant rate per seat (compared with the airlines) when their trusty Landcruiser can deliver them in airconditioned comfort to an airport where a Q 400 or ATR 72 awaits? Not too many GA aircraft even have air conditioning.
In nearly 50 years at the game, I never saw a sustained pilot shortage, whether at GA level or in the airlines. There was a time in the U.K. where the high cost of entry meant they experienced a shortage for a few years, but that is certainly no longer the case there. Here, any shortage typically only lasted about year at a time. No, I do not believe we will ever see a pilot shortage hereabouts. China, yes, the USA maybe, Australia, never.
Move on, requalify in something that will enable you to find a well paid job and as suggested above, buy a nice RA machine if you really must fly.
But it does seem that the drought periods are increasing and the good years perhaps gone forever. The steady erosion of GA can be blamed on- in no particular order:
1. too many companies chasing too little business, cutting prices and consequently snivelling on pilot conditions to try and balance their books - this has always been a problem, but is now the worst it's ever been with pilots sometimes expected to pay for their own IR renewals even though they are employed
2. too many pilots prepared to work for nothing and, as above, actually pay for the privilege
3. 40 year old aircraft which are no longer economic to maintain properly and are no longer acceptable to corporate clients; yet there are no affordable replacements - when the latest Baron sells for over a million bucks, who will pay for that?
4. cheap airfares, reasonable services to most regional airports now and much improved vehicles to get to those airports
So why would anyone charter some clapped-out old GA heap at whatever exorbitant rate per seat (compared with the airlines) when their trusty Landcruiser can deliver them in airconditioned comfort to an airport where a Q 400 or ATR 72 awaits? Not too many GA aircraft even have air conditioning.
In nearly 50 years at the game, I never saw a sustained pilot shortage, whether at GA level or in the airlines. There was a time in the U.K. where the high cost of entry meant they experienced a shortage for a few years, but that is certainly no longer the case there. Here, any shortage typically only lasted about year at a time. No, I do not believe we will ever see a pilot shortage hereabouts. China, yes, the USA maybe, Australia, never.
Move on, requalify in something that will enable you to find a well paid job and as suggested above, buy a nice RA machine if you really must fly.
What to do now?