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CASA IREX Theory Course MB/EN

Old 2nd Oct 2014, 04:55
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: various places .....
Posts: 6,721
Long time, now, since I was in the theory game ...

Two of my favourite students were -

(a) a comparatively gifted bookwork student who, while having more than adequate competence to do it all himself in a doodle, chose to run the classroom race. A great pity he was the radio operator on the Bristol Freighter mishap (SJQ May 75) as he was going to have a career in aviation which would have given me considerable pleasure to observe ... c'est la vie, I guess.

(b) a lovely chap, of chequered past, who, while a fine pilot, had to work his tail off to get through all the theory papers and always needed to watch his pennies carefully throughout the exercise. Ended up a well-regarded T&C airline pilot.

I considered myself fortunate to count both as friends .. doesn't matter which way one goes about the task of getting one's subjects .. certainly the classroom work does make it easier albeit at the expense of some dollars. As others above have observed, the important thing is to acquire a reasonable knowledge of the subject as the first aim and then knock over the exams as the followup.
john_tullamarine is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2014, 21:57
  #22 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Gondwanaland
Posts: 38
Interesting set of responses, ramjet I don't believe I stated I want someone to spoon feed me. I've done all the CPL subjects by myself and just am not quite getting the bob tait book for IREX. I guess speaking up for a better knowledge is frowned upon in your books which concerns me. Hate to be in that classroom!

Cheers FFO
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Old 2nd Oct 2014, 23:53
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Qld troppo
Posts: 3,467
FutureFO, for what its worth, I did the IREX exam nearly 30 years ago so my perspective may be a little historical, but I also found it to be relatively easy - second only to the BGT exam. That said, I did it in the middle of my IR training - so was a combination of self-study and briefings as part of the IR training on use of navaids, minimum equipment, alternate requirements etc. Seems to me if you can fly IFR competently and know the rules under which you operate then you should be able to handle the exam.

Doing the IREX along with your IR training puts the knowledge in the context of practical operations and enhances understanding.

For me, the hardest exam for CPL/MEIR was MORSE CODE !!!

And naturally, not long after I passed the morse test they dropped the requirement!

Man I hated that thing - but 30 yrs later I still don't need to look up the cheat sheet!

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Old 3rd Oct 2014, 00:39
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 1,243
I'm opening my own theory school. IREX is $1000 full time and a maximum of 4 per class.

Any takers???
pilotchute is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2014, 02:03
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Stag Lane
Age: 50
Posts: 74
I self studied with the Aviation Theory Centre notes and got through comfortably. I would suggest, self studying and then hitting up LT at MB for a couple of 1 on 1 sessions to go over any queries.

One great advantage of group courses is the networking. Meet a few new faces from different parts of the industry, make a few friends and viola... Getting a job gets a WHOLE lot easier!

Good luck.
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Old 3rd Oct 2014, 02:37
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 226
My view is that anyone of even below average intelligence but with a reasonable degree of motivation can read the syllabus, the recommended reading material and pass the exam.

Similarly, the same applies to morse code, its even easier, my son at four years of age had no problem learning morse code, and that might have something to do with the fact that I started learning it at a similar age.

My message for those who appeared to be more afraid of IREX is to develop a determination to make sure that they know it from one end to the other.

Some of the questions are like really hard, what frequency is the glide path of an ILS? What is quadrantal error? VHF range at altitude. Just which of these sorts of question do they need to be "spoon fed" in order to pass the exam and then promptly forget it all?

There are many other much tougher exams around that pilots don 't have to study for or sit and, there will be things that you have that you have to study because your life and other peoples live can hang in the balance.

The Instrument written exam, is by way of comparison, one of the easier challenges you will face. Everything in the exam you could be asked at employment interview or a captain to check your knowledge.

Fear of the exam will not help you as much as treating it as an adventure in learning where you set a goal of at least a reasonable score of what at you expect of yourself then go and achieve it.

While I had no problem with the IREX, I had a rude awakening with the Canadian Instrument written and the FAA Instrument took up several hundred more hours of study simply because there was so much more practice material around to test knowledge.

When I did my US ATP ride, the examiner I got decided that because I was from down under, that I really needed an education on top of that written exam.

He was right, we spent six hours on the ground before we went flying, he did examining as a hobby. His full time job was a check pilot on B52's which gives you an idea of the dedication he put into his profession.

On the flip side, I've had another examiner go from start up to a rolling take off in 30 seeconds, while he wore real spurs on real cowboy boots in a ten gallon hat, while he yabbered fast and got instant clearances that mere mortals never get. The pre-ride questions were very limited.

I can think of numerous rides where knowledge was checked with a few questions that were a bit like do you want to be a millionaire, they got progressively harder and suddenly stopped . Others who were not able to provide all the right answers, got far longer rides, with lower scores
that you don't want to have on your record.

If you have a pathetic attitude to the IREX then odds are its symptom of something else and
if I was a check and training captain, I'd then be looking at human factors like personality traits, more commonly called disorders.

Passing the IREX, can be and should be an opportunity to become more professional and even if you can score highly on it, there will be plenty of check pilots able and capable of finding a huge list of what you don't know.

No, I won't be running an IREX classes at Moorabbin anytime soon. I'm overseas and flying a desk for a while.

If and when I get back, I will most probably do some ground school training.

These days, its more likely to be developing software based training.

Positive posts please.

Last edited by Ramjet555; 3rd Oct 2014 at 02:54.
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Old 3rd Oct 2014, 03:54
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: rookie land
Age: 28
Posts: 144
So just because you can self study means that everyone else, even people with 'below average intelligence' can? You sir are an absolute flog
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Old 3rd Oct 2014, 04:14
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 1,243

I am calling you on the FAA IFR written being harder than the CASA exam. I just found an article stating that the FAA had to change the exams because someone finished the IFR written in 2 minutes! They didn't change the questions just the letters next to the answers. A became C etc. Because all the questions and answers are available online.

Found a link.
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Old 3rd Oct 2014, 14:52
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 226
Lots of argumentative posts.
If you can't self study, then perhaps aviation is not a suitable career.
It's most commonly found these days amongst teenagers who get anything
and everything they wanted, and when school marks fall, parents threaten
the teachers to give them better marks.

It's a sign of immaturity and deliquescent both of which make joke out of CRM.

FAA Instrument. Sure you can call me out. Have you written multiple IFR exams in multiple jurisdictions?

I've sat and then taught these subjects in all these jurisdictions and, its
my not so humble or humble opinion, depending on your opinion, that the USA Instrument exam is harder than the Australian.

In all jurisdictions, you can take the easy approach, be spoon fed the questions and learn by rote, the answers without understanding them and for just long enough to pass the exam and then promptly forget it never to have to write the exam again.

I would suggest that Australia has a fundamental problem with its failure to ensure IFR currency as regards knowledge.

You can do the IREX and not fly for 30 years and just do an instrument ride, yes, an initial ride but without any requirement to rewrite the exam.

The Americans have a different approach. you don't do a renewal but a IFR proficiency check, which no decent instructor will sign off on unless you know your stuff. The FAA system relies more on the integrity of the instructor, and not an examiner as in Australia or Canada.

Canada however requires that you have written the exam IF you let an IFR rating lapse over two years..

While any clown or elementary school student could be similarly trained, like lots of delinquent pilots, they wont really know the material.

The US system requires a comprehensive IFR knowledge and while you might pass the IFR written there, it becomes another matter to pull out an approach chart and ask the candidate questions.

The syllabus for the FAA Instrument rating is broad and detailed. It provides a realistic guideline of what you will need to know and should know.

I have not seen or heard about the IREX for a very long time, however, some of the questions you will see on it are identical if not copied from the FAA and other exams.

The Canadian Instrument Exam "IRAT", is more of a mind game that requires an academic ability to pass academic exams which, absent the spoon fed question approach, will sort the wheat from the chaff.

What are the FAA to do?
Yes, people can and do get spoon fed. The FAA approach has been to
increase the question bank into thousands of questions while Aust and Canada for example try to keep a short list of questions on different numbered exams so that you don't sit the same exam twice.

To pass the FAA by rote, you will need to go though thousands of questions which will, make you learn, by rote the material.

Each jurisdiction has their own ideas and rules.

I'm trying to show that regardless of jurisdiction, we all have an obligation to know the material, check others on their knowledge, and as instructors, demonstrate some leadership and example of the approach
that should be taken.

If any student I had objected to this approach, and wanted just the answers, I'd let them choose somewhere else to do their training.

After decades at this you get to be very accurate about predicting accidents going to happen and you can see them here on prune without even meeting them or flying with them.
Ramjet555 is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2014, 16:27
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Aimlessly wandering
Posts: 170
Wow, just, wow.

Here's a thought, given your messianic ability to teach instrument theory, I bet you could teach a non aviator to pass that IREX exam first go, with 90% plus scores. The problem is THEY STILL COULDN'T FLY!

After decades at this you should be able accurately predict the accident rate of the desk you say you fly. 0%

I have written no IFR EXAMS.
I have not been a tosser in multiple jurisdictions.
I have not threatened nefarious teachers.
I am probably the type of person you would reject for your in theory, theory school.
However, I can fly an aircraft. Through the entire flight envelope.

Theory knowledge means very little when by your own assertion "any clown or elementary school student can be trained".

I'm glad I'm not the poor soul that had to stroke your ego into arousal.

I suggest you read "Fly Better" by Noel Kruse. Not even the entire text, as you clearly are above that. Just the foreword should give you pause and perhaps adjust your attitude to theory verses hands on flying experience.
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