USA anyone? Lets all go!
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One thing to bear in mind when considering this:
I get the impression that in many parts of the world, perhaps most parts of the world, it's pretty common to have airline hiring done through a third party agency. Not always, but common enough to be unremarkable.
Here's the thing, it just does not happen with US based carriers. They do thier own hiring. I have not ever heard of a US based airline hiring through a third party agency. That's not to say that it has *never* happened, but it is really uncommon.
So that kind of raises a red flag with me, which might not be obvious to those from places where it's unremarkable.
Also, as others have been mentioned, the hiring of expats is not one of those things which is done either. Sure, there are guys who emigrate, independently, for the own personal reasons and subsequently get hired at airlines. We have a couple in this thread, and that's all good. But a program of "importing" expats in large groups to fly for US airlines? Has not ever happened to my knowledge. Not saying it couldn't start, but it's unprecedented.
So, if someone is offering as a third party agency, a hiring program to bring foreign pilots into the US to fly for US airlines, I would proceed with a great deal of skepticism.
I get the impression that in many parts of the world, perhaps most parts of the world, it's pretty common to have airline hiring done through a third party agency. Not always, but common enough to be unremarkable.
Here's the thing, it just does not happen with US based carriers. They do thier own hiring. I have not ever heard of a US based airline hiring through a third party agency. That's not to say that it has *never* happened, but it is really uncommon.
So that kind of raises a red flag with me, which might not be obvious to those from places where it's unremarkable.
Also, as others have been mentioned, the hiring of expats is not one of those things which is done either. Sure, there are guys who emigrate, independently, for the own personal reasons and subsequently get hired at airlines. We have a couple in this thread, and that's all good. But a program of "importing" expats in large groups to fly for US airlines? Has not ever happened to my knowledge. Not saying it couldn't start, but it's unprecedented.
So, if someone is offering as a third party agency, a hiring program to bring foreign pilots into the US to fly for US airlines, I would proceed with a great deal of skepticism.
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The agency, the airline, the "intention" is legit.
Just make a call to AFAP to verify it as I have. Easy.
Whether it all happens remains to be seen.
Just make a call to AFAP to verify it as I have. Easy.
Whether it all happens remains to be seen.
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According to the reply you posted, the the "agency" is declining to identify the airline. So, you know that the Airline is legit how, exactly? You apparently have some information beyond what the agency told you. So what additional information do you have.
Sure, because if it was just a scam, when you called them , they would tell you "naaahhh, we're really not legit"
Look, I'm not claiming to know that they are or are not legitimate, I'm just saying I'm a bit skeptical, and claiming that you *know* they are for real because you contacted them and they told you they're for real is just silly.
Edit: I see that AFAP refers to the Aus. Federation of Air Pilots, not the "recruiting agency" itself.
OK, so you call AFAP and they say, yeah, this agency with no name, recruiting for an airline they won't disclose, is legit, because? Because they paid their fee for having their ad listed on the website?
Really, what does AFPA know about whoever sent in the ad, and what basis do they have for vouching that they are legitimate?
If this is an established, legitimate recruiting company with a known history in airline crew recruitment, then why are isn't the name of the company included in the advertisement?
And if they're not an established recruitment agency with a known history, what basis does *anyone* having for claiming that they're legitimate?
Sure, because if it was just a scam, when you called them , they would tell you "naaahhh, we're really not legit"
Look, I'm not claiming to know that they are or are not legitimate, I'm just saying I'm a bit skeptical, and claiming that you *know* they are for real because you contacted them and they told you they're for real is just silly.
Edit: I see that AFAP refers to the Aus. Federation of Air Pilots, not the "recruiting agency" itself.
OK, so you call AFAP and they say, yeah, this agency with no name, recruiting for an airline they won't disclose, is legit, because? Because they paid their fee for having their ad listed on the website?
Really, what does AFPA know about whoever sent in the ad, and what basis do they have for vouching that they are legitimate?
If this is an established, legitimate recruiting company with a known history in airline crew recruitment, then why are isn't the name of the company included in the advertisement?
And if they're not an established recruitment agency with a known history, what basis does *anyone* having for claiming that they're legitimate?
Last edited by A Squared; 25th Jul 2014 at 10:04.
According to the reply you posted, the the "agency" is declining to identify the airline. So, you know that the Airline is legit how, exactly?
As A Squared points out, airlines in the US (also in Australia and New Zealand) do their own recruiting, so this could just be an identity theft scam. I'm not saying it is.........but just reminding people of the possibility.
Additionally, if this was legitimate, candidates still need to obtain an FAA ATP, which just got a whole lot more expensive.
If something sounds too good to be true..........it probably is.
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OK, so you want to arrange 2 year work visas for this group of 50 Australian Pilots to come to the US and fly for XYZ Airlines?
Yes, sir, very much so sir.
OK, and why is XYZ airlines not filling these positions with US pilots. (these type of questions do get asked when it's being proposed to issue work visas to foreigners)
Well, you see sir, because the new 121 regulations require XYZ to only hire pilots with US ATP certificates, and there is a shortage of US pilots with US ATP certificates. (Questionable premise, but play along ... )
Ahhh, I see, and so all these Australian Pilots hold US ATP certificates Right?
Well no, they don't, but they'd really *like* to.
ERrrrmmmmm, yes .... I see....
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Clearly there are people more qualified than I who are lawyers, experienced skeptics, as well as pilots.
Maybe it doesn't pan out.
Nothing to lose in making an application, at certainly no cost to the applicant, compared to other airlines in Australia running scam psychometric testing that none of you are up in arms over.
Valid point, what I found out validates nothing.
I know no more than I have stated.
You call AFAP and give them an ear full.
Maybe it doesn't pan out.
Nothing to lose in making an application, at certainly no cost to the applicant, compared to other airlines in Australia running scam psychometric testing that none of you are up in arms over.
Valid point, what I found out validates nothing.
I know no more than I have stated.
You call AFAP and give them an ear full.
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Youse guys are 'kin funny 
drooling over a 25k job with your 100k flying debt, living in a trailer park eating 2 minute noodles, no medical (if it's provided it will be the cheapest peice of **** they can buy that covers nothing but ticks boxes) come back to Austraya after scabbing on your American bruthas & straight into a left seat A380 job
Australian Aviation, if you thought it could get any lower, way to go!
drooling over a 25k job with your 100k flying debt, living in a trailer park eating 2 minute noodles, no medical (if it's provided it will be the cheapest peice of **** they can buy that covers nothing but ticks boxes) come back to Austraya after scabbing on your American bruthas & straight into a left seat A380 job Australian Aviation, if you thought it could get any lower, way to go!
Last edited by Jack Ranga; 25th Jul 2014 at 19:37.
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For those of you who consider this as a career move, please consider the following:
Once upon a time there was a company called American Airlines. The brave and good people of American gave considerable concessions to save their company from Chapter 11.
Alas, it was not enough. It wasn't enough because at the time in question, every other single airline went through bankruptcy and was able to require draconian cuts and give backs from their employees. The airline companies also shafted other creditors and didn't pay their bills. If they paid at all it was pennies on the dollar.
So in late 2011 American Airlines filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection.[Come on in the water's fine every other major legacy carrier has done it.] The negotiations with all the employee groups were tough but in the end all groups eventually came to agreements. Envoy, the former American Eagle, brand was wholly owned regional partner of the new American. This pilot group also took cuts to help the parent company survive.
Now forward a few months after the New American has emerged from bankruptcy and it is discovered that Delta Airlines has a provision in their "Fee for departure" agreements with their regional partners that they can revisit those contracts and hold all the regional feed contracts to the next lowest cost figure.
After making promises under oath to the bankruptcy court and paying executives obscene bonuses the new management of American is demanding concessions on a bankruptcy contract from the Envoy pilots because they learned that another carrier has low cost provision.
Several days ago on July 24th American Announced the following:
Airline Also Announces Capital Deployment Program FORT WORTH, Texas, July 24, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines Group Inc. (NASDAQ: AAL) today reported its second quarter 2014 results.
It is not too far a stretch to say that if you take a job at some regional carrier here in the US that in a year or two you will be making the decision to go to work, or join a picket line. The company you work for will be holding that green card over your head. You may have to walk the picket line from Sydney.
Just sayin....
Once upon a time there was a company called American Airlines. The brave and good people of American gave considerable concessions to save their company from Chapter 11.
Alas, it was not enough. It wasn't enough because at the time in question, every other single airline went through bankruptcy and was able to require draconian cuts and give backs from their employees. The airline companies also shafted other creditors and didn't pay their bills. If they paid at all it was pennies on the dollar.
So in late 2011 American Airlines filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection.[Come on in the water's fine every other major legacy carrier has done it.] The negotiations with all the employee groups were tough but in the end all groups eventually came to agreements. Envoy, the former American Eagle, brand was wholly owned regional partner of the new American. This pilot group also took cuts to help the parent company survive.
Now forward a few months after the New American has emerged from bankruptcy and it is discovered that Delta Airlines has a provision in their "Fee for departure" agreements with their regional partners that they can revisit those contracts and hold all the regional feed contracts to the next lowest cost figure.
After making promises under oath to the bankruptcy court and paying executives obscene bonuses the new management of American is demanding concessions on a bankruptcy contract from the Envoy pilots because they learned that another carrier has low cost provision.
Several days ago on July 24th American Announced the following:
Airline Also Announces Capital Deployment Program FORT WORTH, Texas, July 24, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines Group Inc. (NASDAQ: AAL) today reported its second quarter 2014 results.
- Second quarter 2014 non-GAAP net profit excluding net special charges was $1.5 billion, a record for any quarter in the history of American Airlines
- Second quarter 2014 GAAP net profit was a record $864 million
- The Company also announced a capital deployment program, including over $2.8 billion in debt and aircraft lease prepayments, a $1 billion share repurchase program, the initiation of a quarterly cash dividend, and $600 million of additional pension contributions
- As part of the program, American's Board of Directors declared a dividend of $0.10 per share for shareholders of record as of August 4, 2014. The cash dividend is the first declared by American since 1980.
It is not too far a stretch to say that if you take a job at some regional carrier here in the US that in a year or two you will be making the decision to go to work, or join a picket line. The company you work for will be holding that green card over your head. You may have to walk the picket line from Sydney.
Just sayin....
I would sincerely hope anyone who did that would be blacklisted.
