MERGED: Free Spirit Airlines again...got a spare $147,000 plus?
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MERGED: Free Spirit Airlines again...got a spare $147,000 plus?
From their advertisement in The Age 26 April and squeezed between ads for Brick & Blocklayers below, Sales Part Time Thomas Jewellers above and an ad on the side, TV Acting - no experience required.
Free Spirit Airlines ..in order to satisfy pilot requirements...has actioned a Pilot Cadetship Program...join our dynamic and vibrant team...upon completion of training...will be offered full time pilot employment...preferably possess nil flying experience. Cost only $147,500. Interviews at Essendon 3rd and 4th of May 2014 which is one year after they advertised for the first time. Any graduates of Year 2013 courses care to offer constructive comment for 2014 hopefuls?
Exactly what "pilot requirements" have to be satisfied?
Free Spirit Airlines ..in order to satisfy pilot requirements...has actioned a Pilot Cadetship Program...join our dynamic and vibrant team...upon completion of training...will be offered full time pilot employment...preferably possess nil flying experience. Cost only $147,500. Interviews at Essendon 3rd and 4th of May 2014 which is one year after they advertised for the first time. Any graduates of Year 2013 courses care to offer constructive comment for 2014 hopefuls?
Exactly what "pilot requirements" have to be satisfied?
Have in the past fortnight spoken to the extremely disappointed and considerably poorer parents of 2 very disappointed young folk who pursued the "Jetstar dream".
Both sets of parents should have known better, but my point is - if a "cadetship" with a relatively large and known operator ends in tears, who in their right mind would enter into a contract with an "operator" that is still only a dream itself (and maybe a wet dream at that).
Both sets of parents should have known better, but my point is - if a "cadetship" with a relatively large and known operator ends in tears, who in their right mind would enter into a contract with an "operator" that is still only a dream itself (and maybe a wet dream at that).
This really is ridiculous.
At nearly $150,000 this is the most expensive of any cadetship offered in Australia (Qantas, Qantaslink, Jetstar, Virgin Australia, Sharp Airlines, REX) and it is a start-up company that no one even knows anything about.
Are we now entering an era where the only way into the cockpit of any new carrier (even turboprop regional) is to fork-out over $100,000?
One must also not forget the stringent high standards looked for in their selection criteria, where an applicant must possess "nil flying experience".
At nearly $150,000 this is the most expensive of any cadetship offered in Australia (Qantas, Qantaslink, Jetstar, Virgin Australia, Sharp Airlines, REX) and it is a start-up company that no one even knows anything about.
Are we now entering an era where the only way into the cockpit of any new carrier (even turboprop regional) is to fork-out over $100,000?
One must also not forget the stringent high standards looked for in their selection criteria, where an applicant must possess "nil flying experience".
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At this point the Employer will facilitate for Commercial Pilot Employment. The pilot shall be
engaged in operating charter and aerial work flights, as authorised by the company or any other
entity which holds a binding commercial agreement with Free Spirit Airlines. Upon obtaining
the necessary Commercial Flying Experience, consisting of 1000 hours of total flight time in
light aircraft, which is expected to take 12-18 months, Free Spirit Airlines will progress the pilot
to Phase 2.
engaged in operating charter and aerial work flights, as authorised by the company or any other
entity which holds a binding commercial agreement with Free Spirit Airlines. Upon obtaining
the necessary Commercial Flying Experience, consisting of 1000 hours of total flight time in
light aircraft, which is expected to take 12-18 months, Free Spirit Airlines will progress the pilot
to Phase 2.
up. They will facilitate commercial pilot employment so that their cadets can reach the required 1000 hours before B1900 conversion.
hahaahaha. Sure. Good luck, assholes.
Mr Sharp puts his kids in the RHS of a Metro straight out of flight training so what would be so much different with a B1900?
Chimbu
How did the Jetstar Cadetship "end in tears" exactly??
Chimbu
How did the Jetstar Cadetship "end in tears" exactly??
Sharp has a real operation is perhaps a huge difference between the 2! I'd love to see a list of 'operators' that have planned to start up in Australia that have seen little more than a crappy website before running out of funds before even starting!
Sadly enough fools will part with their money and then be on the media crying poor about how they were tricked. Buyer beware, if it looks like *hit, smells like *hit, it's probably *hit!
You got the job, just deposit the money into my Nigerian bank account!
Sadly enough fools will part with their money and then be on the media crying poor about how they were tricked. Buyer beware, if it looks like *hit, smells like *hit, it's probably *hit!
You got the job, just deposit the money into my Nigerian bank account!
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How did the Jetstar Cadetship "end in tears" exactly??
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I wouldn't rank this one at the top of the list, my list would be
1. Jetstar , straight to the jet, salary now $100K, qantas group, multiple franchises around Asia where you can head for a few years etc.
2. Virgin , turbos for a few years , then perhaps widebody SO , then narrowbody fo , so take six years to achieve what you achieve in upon graduation for option 1. The cool funky company that treats staff with "respect" , it's all about the "respect" - lost $500 mill over past few years.
3. Rex , onto the turboprop after graduation, command after about five years. Reasonable number have moved to airlines now. On about $60 to $70 K fairly soon after graduating
All of the first three are full time permanent jobs where there are hundreds of applicants every year - merit based selection
4. Sharp, you get nine months in the RHS of a Metro after course completion, keep in mind the Metro is a single pilot aircraft, and is steadily declining in numbers. The course used to be 750 hours of "aeronautical" experience now down to 500 hours, then you hit the street
5. Another outfit called ACA - or airline cadets australia , think they used to send people to the now defunct Macair. Still a website there not sure what they are doing
But be so careful because there is no guarantee at Jetstar , you actually have to pass the course , and then you are placed onto reserve employment list, you might actually have to wait a few months also. What a terrible experience to subject a 19/20 year to , no limo to pick them up from Oxford , making them wait up to six months before they commence, prior to paying them $100K.
The cadetships are all just a big conspiracy to get at "the pilots" , because you guys are just so important.
Many of the posters regarding cadet ships are just really so bitter, and angry. It must really be a big disappointment to realize that all the time , finances etc put into climbing the GA ladder will be very unlikely to get you to an airline now.
Must be a lot of people wishing they had done something else.
How many direct entry jet jobs in Australia over the last three years - really very few & the one who has taken the most - Jetstar has largely turned it's back on GA/regional
1. Jetstar , straight to the jet, salary now $100K, qantas group, multiple franchises around Asia where you can head for a few years etc.
2. Virgin , turbos for a few years , then perhaps widebody SO , then narrowbody fo , so take six years to achieve what you achieve in upon graduation for option 1. The cool funky company that treats staff with "respect" , it's all about the "respect" - lost $500 mill over past few years.
3. Rex , onto the turboprop after graduation, command after about five years. Reasonable number have moved to airlines now. On about $60 to $70 K fairly soon after graduating
All of the first three are full time permanent jobs where there are hundreds of applicants every year - merit based selection
4. Sharp, you get nine months in the RHS of a Metro after course completion, keep in mind the Metro is a single pilot aircraft, and is steadily declining in numbers. The course used to be 750 hours of "aeronautical" experience now down to 500 hours, then you hit the street
5. Another outfit called ACA - or airline cadets australia , think they used to send people to the now defunct Macair. Still a website there not sure what they are doing
But be so careful because there is no guarantee at Jetstar , you actually have to pass the course , and then you are placed onto reserve employment list, you might actually have to wait a few months also. What a terrible experience to subject a 19/20 year to , no limo to pick them up from Oxford , making them wait up to six months before they commence, prior to paying them $100K.
The cadetships are all just a big conspiracy to get at "the pilots" , because you guys are just so important.
Many of the posters regarding cadet ships are just really so bitter, and angry. It must really be a big disappointment to realize that all the time , finances etc put into climbing the GA ladder will be very unlikely to get you to an airline now.
Must be a lot of people wishing they had done something else.
How many direct entry jet jobs in Australia over the last three years - really very few & the one who has taken the most - Jetstar has largely turned it's back on GA/regional
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It must be a sad existence being you, FlyBoat North. A 38 year old who never made it, but is now a self-proclaimed expert about cadetships and the industry in general. You are clearly one of three people:
To everyone else, I'm sorry I opened up my packet of troll food, but I couldn't sit back any more.
- Involved with the organisations that provide cadet training for Jetstar
- A glorified plane spotter. I say glorified because you may have a GFPT or PPL but never took it any further because you didn't have the guts to give it a real go.
- A 21 year old Jetstar cadet that feels the need to protect his/her existence by pretending to be an older, more knowledgeable person.
To everyone else, I'm sorry I opened up my packet of troll food, but I couldn't sit back any more.
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Some of us have no interest in working as airline pilots, goodluck to those that do & those who don't
Many of the posters here really sound like some caricatures out of the the 1950s/60s using old fashioned jingoistic language. Really some very conservative & very narrow minded viewpoints expressed.
It seems all like to claim they had a dream run through GA in three to five years made it to an airline as did "all my mates", and speak in such Aussie, jingoistic terminology of their time in the outback.
The data really tells a vastly different story, let's look at the data since say the start of 2011 - last 3.5 years.
How many people hire onto jets in Australia (RPT and FIFO) ??
I would say 350 and that would be tops.
Any takers , we are talking about Virgin , Qantas , Jetstar , Network , Tiger , Alliance , Cobhams , Air North , Skywest .
Virgin after much hoopla & mania regarding the magic man continues to loose vast amounts of money & recently dissolved a hold file that had been around for two years. Did they hire anyone over the past 3.5 years ,well not over last 2.5 , maybe allow 30 for 2011.
Qantas - zero
Jetstar - around 250 - includes 100 Qantas transfers, over 80 cadets now, and that is the number that really gets to you guys. So possibly at most 70 direct entry over the past 3.5 years
So really all people have is a trickle that have gone into the FIFO, and secondary RPT carries (Qlink 717 etc). So the DE turboprop guys are competing against ADF resignees and the hundreds of highly experienced Aust airline pilots that at any one point are always looking to return home. So what are your chances - well really pretty slim when you evaluate the data objectively.
The sources of pilots are
1. ADF
2.Regional/GA
3. Overseas based Australians (experienced)
4. Cadet
In terms of input to increase the source , consider the number of CPLs issued each year to Australians, and the number of people winged in the ADF (about 120 to 140 pa).
Grim time for GA/Regional pilots, and will stay that way for a significant time you would think. Two largest airlines on their financial deathbeds, and the one airline that has taken significant numbers - that would be Jetstar has taken on nearly one hundred cadets since 2010.
That would create some angst
Many of the posters here really sound like some caricatures out of the the 1950s/60s using old fashioned jingoistic language. Really some very conservative & very narrow minded viewpoints expressed.
It seems all like to claim they had a dream run through GA in three to five years made it to an airline as did "all my mates", and speak in such Aussie, jingoistic terminology of their time in the outback.
The data really tells a vastly different story, let's look at the data since say the start of 2011 - last 3.5 years.
How many people hire onto jets in Australia (RPT and FIFO) ??
I would say 350 and that would be tops.
Any takers , we are talking about Virgin , Qantas , Jetstar , Network , Tiger , Alliance , Cobhams , Air North , Skywest .
Virgin after much hoopla & mania regarding the magic man continues to loose vast amounts of money & recently dissolved a hold file that had been around for two years. Did they hire anyone over the past 3.5 years ,well not over last 2.5 , maybe allow 30 for 2011.
Qantas - zero
Jetstar - around 250 - includes 100 Qantas transfers, over 80 cadets now, and that is the number that really gets to you guys. So possibly at most 70 direct entry over the past 3.5 years
So really all people have is a trickle that have gone into the FIFO, and secondary RPT carries (Qlink 717 etc). So the DE turboprop guys are competing against ADF resignees and the hundreds of highly experienced Aust airline pilots that at any one point are always looking to return home. So what are your chances - well really pretty slim when you evaluate the data objectively.
The sources of pilots are
1. ADF
2.Regional/GA
3. Overseas based Australians (experienced)
4. Cadet
In terms of input to increase the source , consider the number of CPLs issued each year to Australians, and the number of people winged in the ADF (about 120 to 140 pa).
Grim time for GA/Regional pilots, and will stay that way for a significant time you would think. Two largest airlines on their financial deathbeds, and the one airline that has taken significant numbers - that would be Jetstar has taken on nearly one hundred cadets since 2010.
That would create some angst
Some of us have no interest in working as airline pilots, goodluck to those that do & those who don't
But surely even you must admit this scheme seems at best highly risky to be signing up to?!
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Well why would anyone consider it , you are really just being asked to be a financier on somebody else's business concept.
Can you fund my hypothetical idea please ?
Just a little different from Jetstar Aust & Rex who both fly and make millions . Just out of interest how much has Rex made over the last five years, well I guess if they made one cent they would be $500 million dollars more profitable than Virgin - go the Magic Man, also Jetstar Aust ?? - dollars , dollars , dollars you might think.
More broadly too many flying schools are asking for too high a proportion of fees either upfront , or front loaded. In effect you are being asked to be the financier to the actual flying school - you have to be careful here as asking for fees front loading may well be an indication of financial duress. Where will you be if they go belly up, and large flying schools go belly up all the time in Australia. Even with the GA slave labour system for flying instructors most adopt - not that anyone here would admit to that , yes they were gainfully employed full time upon completion of training - made it to the airlines in five years without a hitch. Sure thing
The point I think a lot of people miss with the Jetstar, Qlink , Qantas cadetships etc, is that you are a Qantas group cadet. And that people are shuffled around within the system. So that is why now you have Qantas cadets who are now captains at Qlink (about 90% of them hear - those who commenced training from 2006 onwards), some have moved onto other airlines , including Jetstar. One thing for sure though is that when Q mainline does open for hiring, and sure that might be a long time, they will get first preference.
The majority of the Qantas cadets who were still in training following the commencement of the Jetstar program , transferred over to Jetstar. Unlike many posters insist on , Jetstar is planning to continue their program in the long term, & continue to employee all cadets who successfully complete their course. However their may be some delays depending on the number who elect to transfer over from QF mainline. Jetstar has options here, posting them to their overseas franchises or placing them with Qlink. QF did in fact place over ten cadets with Jetstar Asia for their "work experience" - most stayed and are now A320 captains.
Whether you like it or not the QF Group cadets are "the chosen" always have been always will be -nothing you can do. And they will always get employment preference within the ten or so airlines that the QF group is involved with.
The envy is white hot for many people when they see a twenty year old , who is fully checked to line on a Jetstar A320.
Tell it to the judge
But wait I have a better idea - become a Buddhist - that way it might happen in the next Life but it sure isn't looking good right now
Can you fund my hypothetical idea please ?
Just a little different from Jetstar Aust & Rex who both fly and make millions . Just out of interest how much has Rex made over the last five years, well I guess if they made one cent they would be $500 million dollars more profitable than Virgin - go the Magic Man, also Jetstar Aust ?? - dollars , dollars , dollars you might think.
More broadly too many flying schools are asking for too high a proportion of fees either upfront , or front loaded. In effect you are being asked to be the financier to the actual flying school - you have to be careful here as asking for fees front loading may well be an indication of financial duress. Where will you be if they go belly up, and large flying schools go belly up all the time in Australia. Even with the GA slave labour system for flying instructors most adopt - not that anyone here would admit to that , yes they were gainfully employed full time upon completion of training - made it to the airlines in five years without a hitch. Sure thing
The point I think a lot of people miss with the Jetstar, Qlink , Qantas cadetships etc, is that you are a Qantas group cadet. And that people are shuffled around within the system. So that is why now you have Qantas cadets who are now captains at Qlink (about 90% of them hear - those who commenced training from 2006 onwards), some have moved onto other airlines , including Jetstar. One thing for sure though is that when Q mainline does open for hiring, and sure that might be a long time, they will get first preference.
The majority of the Qantas cadets who were still in training following the commencement of the Jetstar program , transferred over to Jetstar. Unlike many posters insist on , Jetstar is planning to continue their program in the long term, & continue to employee all cadets who successfully complete their course. However their may be some delays depending on the number who elect to transfer over from QF mainline. Jetstar has options here, posting them to their overseas franchises or placing them with Qlink. QF did in fact place over ten cadets with Jetstar Asia for their "work experience" - most stayed and are now A320 captains.
Whether you like it or not the QF Group cadets are "the chosen" always have been always will be -nothing you can do. And they will always get employment preference within the ten or so airlines that the QF group is involved with.
The envy is white hot for many people when they see a twenty year old , who is fully checked to line on a Jetstar A320.
Tell it to the judge
But wait I have a better idea - become a Buddhist - that way it might happen in the next Life but it sure isn't looking good right now
Last edited by Flyboat North; 28th Apr 2014 at 06:16.
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Anyone who harbors envy for a 20 year old 320FO has a few screws loose. Nothing like never having to make any solo decisions, never building any proper command time or never having to land on a short field.
If you value cash and job security then great, but other than that it seems like a one way ticket to the end of your working life. Sitting in a big stinky tube, with nothing exciting happening, ever again.
If you value cash and job security then great, but other than that it seems like a one way ticket to the end of your working life. Sitting in a big stinky tube, with nothing exciting happening, ever again.
Whether you like it or not the QF Group cadets are "the chosen" always have been always will be -nothing you can do. And they will always get employment preference within the ten or so airlines that the QF group is involved with.