Multi-Engine or Twin for CPL Training.
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Multi-Engine or Twin for CPL Training.
Good day,
I've received my PPL here in Australia, and will be going onto the next stage of training which is the CPL.
At my flight school, I have the choice to do the next stage in either a Mooney M20J or Partenavia P68, now doing the training in the Partenavia is obviously more expensive, but how much better off would I be when I start looking for that first job?
At the moment, I am thinking of doing the training in the Mooney and then getting my multi-engine endorsement, but that will leave me with about 9 hours of multi-engine time (where 2 are PIC). Will having just the endorsement but with no real flight time make it difficult for me to find work compared to doing the majority of training in the P68?
I'm not necessarily looking for multi-engine work, but want to keep my options open.
Also, on an unrelated topic, I am about 2 semesters away from gaining a bachelor of science, majoring in Engineering Science. I'm taking time off uni to do my CPL, how beneficial would it be for me to complete this final year of uni in terms of my future career, wanting to go into the airlines?
Any responses would be great, and the more relevant they are to the flying scene in Australia the better. Thanks.
I've received my PPL here in Australia, and will be going onto the next stage of training which is the CPL.
At my flight school, I have the choice to do the next stage in either a Mooney M20J or Partenavia P68, now doing the training in the Partenavia is obviously more expensive, but how much better off would I be when I start looking for that first job?
At the moment, I am thinking of doing the training in the Mooney and then getting my multi-engine endorsement, but that will leave me with about 9 hours of multi-engine time (where 2 are PIC). Will having just the endorsement but with no real flight time make it difficult for me to find work compared to doing the majority of training in the P68?
I'm not necessarily looking for multi-engine work, but want to keep my options open.
Also, on an unrelated topic, I am about 2 semesters away from gaining a bachelor of science, majoring in Engineering Science. I'm taking time off uni to do my CPL, how beneficial would it be for me to complete this final year of uni in terms of my future career, wanting to go into the airlines?
Any responses would be great, and the more relevant they are to the flying scene in Australia the better. Thanks.
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Multi-Engine or Twin for CPL Training.
If I were you I would finish the degree. Engineering would be a good back up in the situation your medical goes tits up further down the line and the degree is in a popular field.
On saying that, unlike the US (I don't know why anybody would want to be a pilot there), having a degree is not required to be a pilot in Australia's major airlines.
On saying that, unlike the US (I don't know why anybody would want to be a pilot there), having a degree is not required to be a pilot in Australia's major airlines.
Bottums Up
The degree won't be required necessarily for a flying career but having it won't hurt. However many pilots get laid off at times when companies go bust, so having a fallback of the degree would be very handy in such situations.
Finish the degree.
It's thirty years since I was in your shoes, CPL training wise, but I think you'll get more bang for your buck by doing a SE CPL, and saving the extra funds for a twin endorsement down the track a bit. In my case I had a basic twin endorsement in '84 with my CPL but didn't fly one for a living for almost 5 years & close to 2000 SE hours.
Finish the degree.
It's thirty years since I was in your shoes, CPL training wise, but I think you'll get more bang for your buck by doing a SE CPL, and saving the extra funds for a twin endorsement down the track a bit. In my case I had a basic twin endorsement in '84 with my CPL but didn't fly one for a living for almost 5 years & close to 2000 SE hours.
Don't worry about finishing off your cpl and then having to look for a job.
You would be better off finishing your uni degree and then applying for a cadetship with any number of airlines in Australia which with your academic background and flying experience shouldn't have too much of a problem gaining acceptance.
The old path of first needing tens of thousands of hours single, then twin, then turboprop etc etc to just be considered for an airline job is a long extinct dinosaur.
Airlines are looking for intelligent, dynamic and capable young people who can easily be trained straight into the right hand seat of a modern jet aircraft and Australia is finally catching up with the rest of the world in this regard.
Cadetships are the future and they are here now, having irrelevant, totally unrelated and useless experience in General Aviation will not help you get a job in an airline!
All the very best
You would be better off finishing your uni degree and then applying for a cadetship with any number of airlines in Australia which with your academic background and flying experience shouldn't have too much of a problem gaining acceptance.
The old path of first needing tens of thousands of hours single, then twin, then turboprop etc etc to just be considered for an airline job is a long extinct dinosaur.
Airlines are looking for intelligent, dynamic and capable young people who can easily be trained straight into the right hand seat of a modern jet aircraft and Australia is finally catching up with the rest of the world in this regard.
Cadetships are the future and they are here now, having irrelevant, totally unrelated and useless experience in General Aviation will not help you get a job in an airline!
All the very best
Moderator
Cadetships are the future and they are here now, having irrelevant, totally unrelated and useless experience in General Aviation will not help you get a job in an airline!
No not a wind up alert, just a reality check.
Yes, it is so very cute hearing such amazing stories of how well you flew a light piston twin, how hard and valuable it was and how many single hours you needed in general aviation way back in 1984 (30 years ago?) which I am sure is just so relevant to this day and age..
Yes, it is so very cute hearing such amazing stories of how well you flew a light piston twin, how hard and valuable it was and how many single hours you needed in general aviation way back in 1984 (30 years ago?) which I am sure is just so relevant to this day and age..
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When I was 23 I knew everything too 
I love this post from Compylot from back in August 2013.
I love this post from Compylot from back in August 2013.
I've been online for a while now...
...For the first few years of your flying career you will be flying with many old Captains who think that they know so much more than you, have seen it all, done the hard yards blah blah blah but the reality is you will end up saving their a*rse more than once because they can't see past their own ego.
It is the way of the future and 20 years from now just about all RPT Captains will be ex cadets and as the statistics already show the standards, professionalism and consequently safety will all be improved!
...For the first few years of your flying career you will be flying with many old Captains who think that they know so much more than you, have seen it all, done the hard yards blah blah blah but the reality is you will end up saving their a*rse more than once because they can't see past their own ego.
It is the way of the future and 20 years from now just about all RPT Captains will be ex cadets and as the statistics already show the standards, professionalism and consequently safety will all be improved!
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Compy,
Because you're 23 and know everything, certainly more than those old fogey skippers who have spent more time flying than you have breathing, you obviously know that nobody could ever actually want to work in GA.
Just because you have shiny jet syndrome, it doesn't necessarily mean everyone else does.
For my part, when I started flying I wanted to be an ag pilot. How well do you reckon an airline cadetship would have helped me reach that goal, mate?
I've reread the original post, and I can't find the part where he was asking about what he needs to do to get an airline job. Perhaps you could point it out? Looks to me like he was asking about finishing his CPL...
Because you're 23 and know everything, certainly more than those old fogey skippers who have spent more time flying than you have breathing, you obviously know that nobody could ever actually want to work in GA.
Just because you have shiny jet syndrome, it doesn't necessarily mean everyone else does.
For my part, when I started flying I wanted to be an ag pilot. How well do you reckon an airline cadetship would have helped me reach that goal, mate?
I've reread the original post, and I can't find the part where he was asking about what he needs to do to get an airline job. Perhaps you could point it out? Looks to me like he was asking about finishing his CPL...
Part of the vigorous process applicants go through on the way to being selected as successful cadet pilots involves the demonstration of sound comprehension skills, and since I may well be one of those successful candidates and you did ask, bankrunner, sure I'll point it out to you
Looks to me he was asking about getting into the airlines..(second last paragraph, just after the bit about any responses being great)
...in terms of my future career, wanting to go into the airlines?
Last edited by Compylot; 3rd Jan 2014 at 13:04.
I love this post from Compylot from back in August 2013.
Quote:
I've been online for a while now...
...For the first few years of your flying career you will be flying with many old Captains who think that they know so much more than you, have seen it all, done the hard yards blah blah blah but the reality is you will end up saving their a*rse more than once because they can't see past their own ego.
It is the way of the future and 20 years from now just about all RPT Captains will be ex cadets and as the statistics already show the standards, professionalism and consequently safety will all be improved!
Quote:
I've been online for a while now...
...For the first few years of your flying career you will be flying with many old Captains who think that they know so much more than you, have seen it all, done the hard yards blah blah blah but the reality is you will end up saving their a*rse more than once because they can't see past their own ego.
It is the way of the future and 20 years from now just about all RPT Captains will be ex cadets and as the statistics already show the standards, professionalism and consequently safety will all be improved!
...For the first few years of your flying career you will be flying with many old Captains who think that they know so much more than you, have seen it all, done the hard yards blah blah blah but the reality is you will end up saving their a*rse more than once because they can't see past their own ego.
It reads like the early scribbling of a future management psychopath.
Finish your degree, it's worth doing, it's worth the experience of doing and you don't want to have a loose end in your résumé.
Do the CPL in the Mooney, they are a nice aeroplane and you probably won't get to fly one commercially. I don't think any Multi time will make much difference at the start of your career. Having a provable history of consistently selecting gear down before landing might sway some potential employers. (You get that in the Mooney, but not in the P68).
Multi-engine or twin for CPL training is a bit like sleeping with one eye shut and the other one closed
Welcome to flying, all the best
Do the CPL in the Mooney, they are a nice aeroplane and you probably won't get to fly one commercially. I don't think any Multi time will make much difference at the start of your career. Having a provable history of consistently selecting gear down before landing might sway some potential employers. (You get that in the Mooney, but not in the P68).
Multi-engine or twin for CPL training is a bit like sleeping with one eye shut and the other one closed
Welcome to flying, all the best
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Compylot, please do us all a favour.
If you are in fact a Virgin Cadet, please bookmark this thread and respond back the day that you make Captain.
I suspect we may not hear from you for 10-12 years. Personally I don't think you'll make it, so feel free to keep us updated and prove me wrong.
If you are in fact a Virgin Cadet, please bookmark this thread and respond back the day that you make Captain.
I suspect we may not hear from you for 10-12 years. Personally I don't think you'll make it, so feel free to keep us updated and prove me wrong.
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Cadetships are the future and they are here now, having irrelevant, totally unrelated and useless experience in General Aviation will not help you get a job in an airline!
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Shiny jet syndrome
Shiny jet syndrome effects nearly all new graduates. I believe that's ok as ambition and dreams drive us all. However it does need to be held in check a bit. As a hirer of newbies we see the likes of Compylot a lot. They really stand out in a crowd and usually don't even get a check ride. They tend to have a chip on the shoulder because GA won't hire them.
They don't do mirrors well or understand that most times, improvement comes from within. They tend to think all they have to do is turn up to school and they will learn all they think they will need.
I still think the best instructor is a bloke called Miles. Nautical is his first name.
Good old rules of Airmanship and I mean the non flying part of airmanship seem to have been forgotten. Where have the gentlemen and woman gone from our industry. We all seem to be too busy with ourselves now days - think of others.
They don't do mirrors well or understand that most times, improvement comes from within. They tend to think all they have to do is turn up to school and they will learn all they think they will need.
I still think the best instructor is a bloke called Miles. Nautical is his first name.
Good old rules of Airmanship and I mean the non flying part of airmanship seem to have been forgotten. Where have the gentlemen and woman gone from our industry. We all seem to be too busy with ourselves now days - think of others.