Old RAAF Base Airspace in Laverton
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Old RAAF Base Airspace in Laverton
Hi Guys, I was wondering if anyone might know how I could see old VTCs or have any info on what the airspace around Melbourne used to look like when the RAAF base in Laverton had military aircraft operating out of it.
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
No VTCs back then. Western lane north of Laverton as thin as a straw on the map. No GPS either, just flashing lights on the ground, if they could be seen.
These days I often wonder why there are so many VCAs. One old codger told me that the young guys can't think in 3D.
These days I often wonder why there are so many VCAs. One old codger told me that the young guys can't think in 3D.
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Sorry, djpil, but wrong, wrong, wrong. We had VTCs back then.
The VTCs, 30-years ago, had the same fidelity as any good map today.
LAV and PCK had their own section, including the Bay and the R areas. From memory, the chart went to Avalon and back up towards Essendon. It was all encompassing for any GA pilot navigating around the west of MLB.
Roads, cement works, stacks, the refinery - everything was on that chart. Only a blind VFR pilot would have busted airspace.
No offence, but please don't make sweeping comments out of ignorance.
The VTCs, 30-years ago, had the same fidelity as any good map today.
LAV and PCK had their own section, including the Bay and the R areas. From memory, the chart went to Avalon and back up towards Essendon. It was all encompassing for any GA pilot navigating around the west of MLB.
Roads, cement works, stacks, the refinery - everything was on that chart. Only a blind VFR pilot would have busted airspace.
No offence, but please don't make sweeping comments out of ignorance.
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No VTCs back then
"Remain standing!"
Hi,
Not sure if you can easily visit the RAAF Museum, however, in the main display hangar they have a framed map displaying all the airspace as it was 'in the day'.
"None of you can describe the boundaries for area Charlie?!. Right, all of you, RWY 13 Sight Board run now!"
Not sure if you can easily visit the RAAF Museum, however, in the main display hangar they have a framed map displaying all the airspace as it was 'in the day'.
"None of you can describe the boundaries for area Charlie?!. Right, all of you, RWY 13 Sight Board run now!"
'Dual 59 transmit'. Remember the Laverton VDF? I did a perfect one once, ended up precisely overhead, but 1,000' high due to misreading the altimeter…It was a run to the sight board after that one.
'All those still on Number xx Pilot's Course, one pace forward…march! Uh uh, not so fast, Cadet XXXX'
Rocky McG's low level Winjeel aero's on a Friday, most of them involving copious negative g (I wonder what he's doing now?)
Likewise, not a nice experience at PCK and a few unpleasant memories. 2 FTS and the Macchi was a big improvement for those who got through Point Cook.
'All those still on Number xx Pilot's Course, one pace forward…march! Uh uh, not so fast, Cadet XXXX'
Rocky McG's low level Winjeel aero's on a Friday, most of them involving copious negative g (I wonder what he's doing now?)
Likewise, not a nice experience at PCK and a few unpleasant memories. 2 FTS and the Macchi was a big improvement for those who got through Point Cook.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 1st Jan 2014 at 22:44.
Sorry, djpil, but wrong, wrong, wrong. We had VTCs back then.... 30-years ago ...
No offence, but please don't make sweeping comments out of ignorance
I still think that you might find that the airspace was different back in the days before VTCs.
No worries, thanks Howabout, if I didn't enjoy robust debate I would not venture into this forum.
I used the western lane when based near Geelong in the late '60s and early '70s. That was in the days before computers and the internet so my info is based on my faulty memory - now I scan stuff and save it for evidence in debates.
I used the western lane when based near Geelong in the late '60s and early '70s. That was in the days before computers and the internet so my info is based on my faulty memory - now I scan stuff and save it for evidence in debates.
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Captain Dart, I seem to remember; and it might be fanciful after so long, a particular CT4 that did just that circa 1977/78. Nailed it over the aid, but I couldn't see the bugger because I was looking too low with a full circuit on 23. Just as well: it would have been nose-to-nose chaos!
And those westerlies could be a total bugger as well. The plate had the ideal letdown turning inbound just short of Werribee and way beyond the river. However, you could have 10/15 kts on the ground and 30/50 only a couple of thousand feet higher, and the outbound leg was time-based: highly scientific!
I lost count of the number of times a 'Dual' or 'Solo' never made it past the river outbound before turning inbound. We had only azimuth on the CADF, not range, so there was no way of telling exactly where the CT4 was as regards range on either the outbound or inbound legs and, hence, being able to anticipate conflictions with the CCT when running on 23 in particular. It was a huge 'trap for young players,' me included.
Thankfully, we had a big out. The vast majority of days with serious westerlies, while as sh@tty as hell wind-wise, tended to be CAVOK. So we cheated and visually tracked the traffic from overhead the aid and watched the descent all the way so we could give traffic to the inbound and avoid the nose-to-nose with those just airborne off 23. It tended to work OK, but it was in no way perfect and the potential was always there to put two together.
Remember, also, that if you didn't get a good steer it was our 'f@ckup' not yours!
And those westerlies could be a total bugger as well. The plate had the ideal letdown turning inbound just short of Werribee and way beyond the river. However, you could have 10/15 kts on the ground and 30/50 only a couple of thousand feet higher, and the outbound leg was time-based: highly scientific!
I lost count of the number of times a 'Dual' or 'Solo' never made it past the river outbound before turning inbound. We had only azimuth on the CADF, not range, so there was no way of telling exactly where the CT4 was as regards range on either the outbound or inbound legs and, hence, being able to anticipate conflictions with the CCT when running on 23 in particular. It was a huge 'trap for young players,' me included.
Thankfully, we had a big out. The vast majority of days with serious westerlies, while as sh@tty as hell wind-wise, tended to be CAVOK. So we cheated and visually tracked the traffic from overhead the aid and watched the descent all the way so we could give traffic to the inbound and avoid the nose-to-nose with those just airborne off 23. It tended to work OK, but it was in no way perfect and the potential was always there to put two together.
Remember, also, that if you didn't get a good steer it was our 'f@ckup' not yours!
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Back in 1957 DCA issued the Light Aircraft Handbook, a sort of poor mans AIP. The MAP section contained VTCs, each on approx an A4 page, and VECs, which were foldable charts. New charts were issued from time to time. Seagulls copy of AUS-VTC 9 Melbourne Terminal Area is dated 1 Jan 1964 (50 years ago).
The RAAF Laverton airspace was so big that it was not all contained on the VTC. The VEC that I have is dated 1 March 1965 and shows the Laverton CTR as starting with a small radius to the north east of Laverton below the Light aircraft Lane of Entry then west to Meredith, then south to Winchelsea and Aireys Inlet, then coastal to Port Phillip Heads and then across Port Phillip Bay to near Williamstown.
There was an area to the west of Winchelsea out as far as Camperdown that was a Danger/Restricted Area for IF training.
The RAAF Laverton airspace was so big that it was not all contained on the VTC. The VEC that I have is dated 1 March 1965 and shows the Laverton CTR as starting with a small radius to the north east of Laverton below the Light aircraft Lane of Entry then west to Meredith, then south to Winchelsea and Aireys Inlet, then coastal to Port Phillip Heads and then across Port Phillip Bay to near Williamstown.
There was an area to the west of Winchelsea out as far as Camperdown that was a Danger/Restricted Area for IF training.
Last edited by Seagull V; 12th Jan 2014 at 06:41. Reason: Correcting typo
