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Infant Seatbelt Loop

Old 19th Dec 2013, 08:43
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Infant Seatbelt Loop

Hi All - I'm looking to take our little girl (less than 1 year old) for a flight. As I understand the rules, you can use either an Aussie certified car seat or an infant belt loop which attaches to the seat belt worn by an adult passenger.

I fly a Piper Archer, so don't think the car seat will work as I don't believer there are any anchor points in the aircraft. Does anyone know where to buy an infant belt loop? I've looked at all the pilot store websites and can't find them anywhere.

Thanks for your collective help.

Cheers
st777 is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 08:51
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Belts aside make sure you have some high quality ear protection for the child. My advice would be to not take the child, she won't enjoy it and she won't remember it, and you will possibly need to cut the flight short when she gets upset.
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Old 19th Dec 2013, 08:52
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You'll want a CARES harness. CASA and FAA approved, and should fit the back seats in an Archer just fine.

CARES child aviation restraint | Little Gulliver

A seat loop offers no safety for the child; it's basically only there to prevent an infant from becoming projectile in the event of a prang. And in that prang, they'd be crushed by the adult they're sitting on.

Last edited by bankrunner; 19th Dec 2013 at 10:23.
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Old 19th Dec 2013, 09:59
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Belts aside make sure you have some high quality ear protection for the child. My advice would be to not take the child, she won't enjoy it and she won't remember it, and you will possibly need to cut the flight short when she gets upset.
I mostly find they just fall asleep and don't wake up until the engines stop.
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Old 19th Dec 2013, 10:17
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Child Restraint Device

From Qantas.
The safest way for an infant or small child to travel on an aircraft is in a Child Restraint Device such as a car seat. Infants are allowed to be carried on your lap however research has demonstrated it does not provide the protection of a child seat.

A car seat must be pre-approved for use as a child seat at least 24 hours before departure. (my understanding is that most seats approved for cars in Aus are also suitable for aircraft) Approval of car seats cannot be obtained on departure at the airport. You must buy a seat on the plane to ensure the use of a pre-approved car seat or CARES restraint device. To buy a seat on an aircraft for your infant and get pre-approval for the use of a child seat, contact your local Qantas Office.
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Old 19th Dec 2013, 11:25
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Infants are allowed to be carried on your lap however research has demonstrated it does not provide the protection of a child seat.
They don't say!

The airlines should invest in some of those CARES thingees. Certainly looks easier to set up than a car seat (although it is easier if you have had kids and battled with them in the car...).
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Old 19th Dec 2013, 18:53
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FWIW.

The notes below may be of assistance. I had to dig them out and blow the dust of them, they've been hanging around for quite a long while. So check the CAO and any new data published; they could be out of date. I didn't write them, but I'm sure the bloke who did won't mind. Perhaps one of those "Baby-on-board" window placards is not a bad idea, just in case.


Reference CAO 20.16.3 (13.2).

a) An infant is not to carried in an exit seat.

b) The carriage of an infants in the arms of an adult passenger is approved provided the seat belt is fastened around the adult, not the child and a supplementary loop belt is used.. Manifest must show the name of any infant carried in the arms of an adult, bracketed. E.g. Ms. S. White (+ Grumpy).

c) The carriage of infants in bassinettes is approved, provided, that the basinet is secured so as to prevent it moving under the maximum acceleration expected and, that when a seat belt is required to be fastened the seat belt is secured so that the infant will not be thrown from the basinet under acceleration.

Notes – infant seats:- When desired, an infant may be carried in an acceptable separate child restraint system (CRS) fastened to a passenger seat. This could be forward or rearward facing and is the preferred method of restraint for an infant. A child up to age 4 would also be more effectively protected if seated in a CRS provided the weight or size of the child does not exceed the placarded limits of the device.

Any child seat must be secured to the aircraft seat in accordance with the child seat manufacturer‘s instructions or an approved alternate method. A rear facing CRS could be a capsule type or seat type and is suitable for the younger infant who is unable to sit upright.

There are also ―convertible seats which can be rear facing and then forward facing when the infant develops. Due to their design, these CRS are usually larger, and may not physically fit into some aircraft seats, particularly in the smaller regional aircraft. As for all CRS, the installation must be in accordance with the manufacturers‘ instructions or an approved alternate method.

Child and Infant seats should: be installed in accordance with the child/infant seat manufacturer's instructions; not be located in the row adjacent to an emergency exit or immediately forward or aft of such a row. This does not apply where the low seating capacity of the aircraft is such that this limitation is impractical; and not obstruct access and passageways to any emergency exit.
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Old 19th Dec 2013, 21:48
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Used to carry my two kids all the time in the back of light aircraft. Just put the car seat in the back and strap it in tight. Even though you cannot utilise the shelf anchor point it is still far better and safer than having your partner nurse the child (if an infant) on her lap,which is also legal.
I agree on the fall asleep bit. Mine used to be out cold by 4000' and wake up just as the wheels were about to touch down. Must be the altitude I reckon. Start them early and flying is just like getting in the car.(Doesn't every dad own/fly a plane). My son now also fly's.
Buy them a pair of ear muffs. Keeps the noise down and they think it is a headset just like dad's,until they grow up enough to look after a real headset.
Have fun,go to many places as a family in your own aircraft even if rented.

Last edited by mostlytossas; 19th Dec 2013 at 22:30.
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Old 19th Dec 2013, 23:51
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There are car seats that can be secured solely by the lap belt, without the requirement for an anchor point. My child uses a Radian seat in the car, which has the advantage of being rear facing much longer than a standard seat. I haven’t used it in a plane, but I did a trial fitting in an Archer a few years ago and it would have worked fine. Buying a new seat that doesn’t need an anchor would of course be expensive, but peace of mind and all that. I’d personally never take my daughter up without a proper seat. Like others have said, when they’re young they seem to sleep as soon as the power goes on, waking up as you touch down.
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Old 20th Dec 2013, 00:22
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Like others have said, when they’re young they seem to sleep as soon as the power goes on, waking up as you touch down.
I wish mine did that when flying with Qantas
VH-XXX is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2013, 01:52
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I fly with my kids all the time. I always use the car seat strapped in with the seat belt. I've looked at those CARES harnesses and although would be great on an airliner with lap belt only are useless in light aircraft with the 3 point lap/sash seat belt set up. I have searched high and low for a better alternative but have found nothing.

I waited until my youngest was about 14 months before I introduced her to flying and the biggest issue I had was she wouldn't keep her headset on, we did alot of practice at home and tried various methods but in the end we went for the industrial/swimmers type ear plugs designed for noise suppression (search around online for kids sized ones) with the headset over the top when she would allow it, which she doenst seem to mind oddly enough. Ive had some suggestions of also putting a beanie on her to stop her pulling the ear plugs out but haven't needed too yet. I also fly slower when she doesn't have the headset on and drop down to around 20/20 in a C182.

My eldest was 3 when we took her for her first flight and she was a bit scared the first few times, but now we always go away on weekends in the plane and both kids love it as well as my wife (who by the way was scared of flying and vouched never to go near a light aircraft). None of my family like turbulence however so there is still a bit of work to do there.

My suggestion is make the first flight a short one to gauge how she copes and take your wife/partner/responsible adult whose sole purpose is to look after the infant.

Good luck with it.

If you need any other advice just pm me.
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Old 20th Dec 2013, 06:58
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biggest issue I had was she wouldn't keep her headset on,
Probably the channel you have it on... nothing like a favourite video, or better still a new version of a favourite video playing through the headset... thank god for iPads!

A normal car seat strapped in with the 3 point harness does the job, in turbulence which is the main aim.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 13:58
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I know that this thread is old but I thought that people who end up here searching for ways to safely put kids in planes should know that Cirrus SR22 G5s do come with both ISOFIX and top tether strap anchors.

There is a seam in the top of the seat through which the top tether strap can pass. You then clip the tether to a floor-mounted anchor.

You can either use the three-point seatbelt or an ISOFIX system, if you have an ISOFIX car seat. Details are in the POH.

I fly with my one year old in his car seat regularly and it works really well. I do have the same problem as others, though, with him not wanting to keep his headset on.
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