First job depend on flight school?
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First job depend on flight school?
Hey all,
How important is the flight training school you choose in getting your first job?
I guess some are probably more reputable than others. But does it play a big part in the decision of an employer which school a prospective employee trained at, or does it all come down to attitude, personality, hours and right place right time?
Any feedback much appreciated!
How important is the flight training school you choose in getting your first job?
I guess some are probably more reputable than others. But does it play a big part in the decision of an employer which school a prospective employee trained at, or does it all come down to attitude, personality, hours and right place right time?
Any feedback much appreciated!
A first-rate student will excel despite the flying school.
An average student will do well enough in an average flying school.
A poor student will struggle no matter the quality of instruction. You can't make strawberry jam from pig****...
Occasionally you will know that if the applicant trained at school X under CFI Y they will definitely know their stuff, but that only ticks one box in a long list of requirements.
Choice of flight school is not a ticket to a perfect career.
An average student will do well enough in an average flying school.
A poor student will struggle no matter the quality of instruction. You can't make strawberry jam from pig****...
Occasionally you will know that if the applicant trained at school X under CFI Y they will definitely know their stuff, but that only ticks one box in a long list of requirements.
Choice of flight school is not a ticket to a perfect career.
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Your 1st employer will spend considerable time training you to do things their way. Some flying schools will claim that they can give you an advantage over others in getting a first job but That is just BS. Check out flying schools and get a feel for the quality of the instructors and also if they are the type of people that you would want to learn from.
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Some mainline companies from around the world do have preferred flight schools. I know Air NZ has around 5 flight schools that are "Air NZ accredited"
What ever that means.... I'm not entirely sure as they are taking whatever they can get right now for the regionals.
What ever that means.... I'm not entirely sure as they are taking whatever they can get right now for the regionals.
Don't believe anything a flying school tells you about their advantage over others getting you a job. In the same way used car salesmen tell you their cars are somehow better than other yards.
The oldest line in the book is " we usually get our students a job with our connections" yeah right. Until YOU finally complete your course then it is " well normally we can but sorry the downturn the industry is currently experiancing means in your rare case we have no positions /leads available"
Just learn with whoever you feel comfortable with, don't get sucked into endless endo's and ratings then go bush and try and find a job.
The oldest line in the book is " we usually get our students a job with our connections" yeah right. Until YOU finally complete your course then it is " well normally we can but sorry the downturn the industry is currently experiancing means in your rare case we have no positions /leads available"
Just learn with whoever you feel comfortable with, don't get sucked into endless endo's and ratings then go bush and try and find a job.
Fair enough not to do endless ratings, but a bare CPL is all but useless.
Instruct if you think you'll enjoy it, or get your MECIR and head bush.
A Flight school won't matter to an employer unless you can't fly, or interview poorly.
The people I know who treated their training like an extended job interview , who were always prepared, and worked hard , strangely enough found themselves with jobs immediately out of flight school, or with enough good will to score something better as soon as they reached the required experience levels.
Good luck
Instruct if you think you'll enjoy it, or get your MECIR and head bush.
A Flight school won't matter to an employer unless you can't fly, or interview poorly.
The people I know who treated their training like an extended job interview , who were always prepared, and worked hard , strangely enough found themselves with jobs immediately out of flight school, or with enough good will to score something better as soon as they reached the required experience levels.
Good luck
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Fair enough not to do endless ratings, but a bare CPL is all but useless.
Until there is a mass exodus and you're next to fly the twin but you don't have a IR so then you're screwed and they hire some other guy who does. Also worth pointing out that if you are going out bush or up north it is tricky and expensive to move all the way back to a big city to do your IR. Better off to have it than not, if you can afford it.
Never had anyone ask where I learnt to fly in 20 years of being a pilot. It is always how many hours you had in what.....which was never enough I might add.
Never had anyone ask where I learnt to fly in 20 years of being a pilot. It is always how many hours you had in what.....which was never enough I might add.
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First job usually depends on who you know or referrals from friends. So start networking early in your training and get to know people in the industry.
Agree with Nevile. Plus, people don't often do all their training at the one school. Eg I did my PPL/CPL, MECIR and Instructor Rating all at different schools.
Agree with Nevile. Plus, people don't often do all their training at the one school. Eg I did my PPL/CPL, MECIR and Instructor Rating all at different schools.
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Never had anyone ask where I learnt to fly in 20 years of being a pilot. It is always how many hours you had in what.....which was never enough I might add.
Mass exodus of pilots!!! that's funny, LMHO at that. Nearly as good as the always looming pilot shortage.
Look seriously, do it if that is your choice of career, but do it with your eyes wide open.
Unfortunately aviation is one of those careers with a cronic over supply of canidates. Always has been, always will be.
I like to compare it with the entertainment industry. Sure those that get to the top enjoy wealth and lifestyle beyond most peoples dreams. However most get nowhere near it. It is a huge pyramid to the top few attain. Always have a plan B incase it doesn't work out. You still need support yourself for the rest of your life. But good luck.
Look seriously, do it if that is your choice of career, but do it with your eyes wide open.
Unfortunately aviation is one of those careers with a cronic over supply of canidates. Always has been, always will be.
I like to compare it with the entertainment industry. Sure those that get to the top enjoy wealth and lifestyle beyond most peoples dreams. However most get nowhere near it. It is a huge pyramid to the top few attain. Always have a plan B incase it doesn't work out. You still need support yourself for the rest of your life. But good luck.
Last edited by mostlytossas; 18th Dec 2013 at 04:20.
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Here's the top 3 requirements in a rough order:
- Know someone in the company you wish to work for. (Difficult when you're starting out, but we've all been there)
- Interview well. (Know your rules and regs, minimum equipment lists etc, present well, be honest)
- Fly well. (this comes down to your and your trainer. It's been said before: Look at the CFI at each school and ask if he's an ex bush pilot. They're the schools that will teach you how to fly properly and not just get you a sausage-factory licence. Believe me, as an Instructor, I can tell the difference immediately)
- Know someone in the company you wish to work for. (Difficult when you're starting out, but we've all been there)
- Interview well. (Know your rules and regs, minimum equipment lists etc, present well, be honest)
- Fly well. (this comes down to your and your trainer. It's been said before: Look at the CFI at each school and ask if he's an ex bush pilot. They're the schools that will teach you how to fly properly and not just get you a sausage-factory licence. Believe me, as an Instructor, I can tell the difference immediately)
Just dont go to CAE or FTA and you'll be fine.
Edit : Or RMIT! Thats a big one, Sheesh how did I miss that...
Edit : Or RMIT! Thats a big one, Sheesh how did I miss that...
It seems that massively overpaying for your flight training doesn't preclude you from ending up a proficient pilot.
Its clear that it comes down to the individual. Those that didn't have a good work ethic when I was training spent hours bitching and moaning about how crap the school was (didn't matter what school), and yet the guys who stuck their heads down and motored did well.
Same goes for guys in the jobs now. Some people are never happy, and yet all I know who have just stuck with it have scored in one way or another.
That sort of consistency and resilience outlasts any "cycle".
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There is a big gap between gaining your license and then using it in the real world.
Based on experience and depending on the company you have gained a job at; you will receive an ICUS period of approximately 20 hours. The requirement will be dependent on your own skills/experience and whats laid out in the company operations manual.
Out on the job, the considerations that are mostly overlooked by a newcomer: On time performance, fuel management, engine management, use of checklists, passenger/freight management and security, use of TAF's/TTF's with regard to holding requirements, short field takeoff/landings, cleaning and tie down of aircraft, lack of a hand held gps, system knowledge, dealing with real world enroute weather etc.
These will be covered with your on the job training (ICUS).
At the end of the day, the flying school you flew at will have little to do with getting that first job.
Attitude, knowledge and work ethic are the key components that will govern your terms of employment; or lack there of.
Enjoy.
Based on experience and depending on the company you have gained a job at; you will receive an ICUS period of approximately 20 hours. The requirement will be dependent on your own skills/experience and whats laid out in the company operations manual.
Out on the job, the considerations that are mostly overlooked by a newcomer: On time performance, fuel management, engine management, use of checklists, passenger/freight management and security, use of TAF's/TTF's with regard to holding requirements, short field takeoff/landings, cleaning and tie down of aircraft, lack of a hand held gps, system knowledge, dealing with real world enroute weather etc.
These will be covered with your on the job training (ICUS).
At the end of the day, the flying school you flew at will have little to do with getting that first job.
Attitude, knowledge and work ethic are the key components that will govern your terms of employment; or lack there of.
Enjoy.
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The best flying school, without any question is the military. Short service commission and there will still be jobs out there.
Best of all you will have learned to cope with an aircraft in all corners of its envelope.
Best of all you will have learned to cope with an aircraft in all corners of its envelope.
total reaction, unless the flying school is one that has some sort of an arrangement where they give you some experience after then I would say nothing to do with it.
I agree with above posters that in 20 years of flying I've never been asked. I went for the expensive option. Thinking back, if I had my time over I'd have gone elsewhere. Having said all that, internet and pprune was all pretty new back then so I had very little information to base my decision upon. I knew what I didn't want and thats about it.
Problem is, some of the best schools LOOK so damn tatty and dodgy! What you want from your school is an experienced instructor who is interested in teaching you and not some young dude who is just trying to build up hours. If I had my time over I'd either try and get my licence done in a country town with a small outfit with experienced people or I'd go big school with a contract.
I'd say choosing a flying school is more about laying the correct foundations for your career ahead. Having said that you could get a excellent school with a poor instructor.
I don't know if going out and doing all the years in the bush made me a better pilot or just an older guy with less money and a heap of stories that most people don't believe anyway...
A mate in a current airline did a fast track thing. We hold the same position, seniority and salary only he's about a decade younger. I can't see myself getting a command before I retire, I'll just run out of years. Food for thought, good luck.
I agree with above posters that in 20 years of flying I've never been asked. I went for the expensive option. Thinking back, if I had my time over I'd have gone elsewhere. Having said all that, internet and pprune was all pretty new back then so I had very little information to base my decision upon. I knew what I didn't want and thats about it.
Problem is, some of the best schools LOOK so damn tatty and dodgy! What you want from your school is an experienced instructor who is interested in teaching you and not some young dude who is just trying to build up hours. If I had my time over I'd either try and get my licence done in a country town with a small outfit with experienced people or I'd go big school with a contract.
I'd say choosing a flying school is more about laying the correct foundations for your career ahead. Having said that you could get a excellent school with a poor instructor.
I don't know if going out and doing all the years in the bush made me a better pilot or just an older guy with less money and a heap of stories that most people don't believe anyway...
A mate in a current airline did a fast track thing. We hold the same position, seniority and salary only he's about a decade younger. I can't see myself getting a command before I retire, I'll just run out of years. Food for thought, good luck.
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I wont go into names but I can assure you that certain employers will not accept new hires from particular schools. They see them as potential liabilities which has more to do with the fact that those candidates don't hang around as long as others. Read into that as you will.
If I am hiring fresh CPL's i do take into account where they were trained and for that matter by who.
Andy
If I am hiring fresh CPL's i do take into account where they were trained and for that matter by who.
Andy
A first-rate student will excel despite the flying school.
An average student will do well enough in an average flying school.
A poor student will struggle no matter the quality of instruction. You can't make strawberry jam from pig****...
Occasionally you will know that if the applicant trained at school X under CFI Y they will definitely know their stuff, but that only ticks one box in a long list of requirements.
Choice of flight school is not a ticket to a perfect career.
An average student will do well enough in an average flying school.
A poor student will struggle no matter the quality of instruction. You can't make strawberry jam from pig****...
Occasionally you will know that if the applicant trained at school X under CFI Y they will definitely know their stuff, but that only ticks one box in a long list of requirements.
Choice of flight school is not a ticket to a perfect career.
An interview and flight assesment is always interesting regardless of the flight school.