Map Generator Required
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Map Generator Required
Odd title for a thread I know, but I believe the lack of visual information in SIGMET and NOTAM information is a major flaw in this day and age. Air Services staff apparently manually draw out little maps of SIGMET areas to help fellow ATC staff. Pilots? Do it yourself mate, here are all the coordinates... There are only 9 SIGMETs out currently across the Melbourne and Brisbane FIR at the moment as I write this...
I could go on. Survey aircraft often supply map type information to ATC which certainly must help when they interact over the airwaves about what umpteenth run they are up to now... Pilots are left to make up their own mental picture of the operating area - if they can be bothered.
Not only that but in 'this day and age,' experts everywhere are telling us of the impending drone explosion. So I guess we can expect to see an awful lot more NOTAMs like this one:
MELBOURNE FIR (YMMM)
C7604/13
UNMANNED AERIAL VEHICLE (UAV) OPERATIONS WITHIN THE AREAS PRESCRIBED
BELOW:
AREA A:
LATERAL LIMITS: S21 20.9 E115 01.5, S21 35.8 E115 02.9, S21 45.6 E114
17.1, S21 30.0 E114 14.8, S21 20.9 E115 01.5.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - 1000'
AREA B:
LATERAL LIMITS: S21 35.8 E115 02.9, S21 41.4 E115 02.9, S21 43.4 E114
53.5, S21 38.5 E114 50.5, S21 35.8 E115 02.9.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - 500'
AREA C:
LATERAL LIMITS: S21 26.4 E115 02.0, S21 28.7 E115 02.3, S21 28.7 E114
57.2, S21 26.3 E114 57.1, S21 26.4 E115 02.0.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - 5000'
CALLSIGN UNMANNED AEROSONDE
PIC WILL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON 122.4, 125.9 (ML CEN) & 120.1
(CTAF) DURING FLIGHT OPS. MELBOURNE CENTRE WILL HAVE IFR FLIGHT PLAN
DETAILS.
CONTACT PAUL HERRMANN ON 0438 581 003 FOR FURTHER DETAILS.
FROM 12 042200 TO 12 201000
HJ
How long is it going to take before someone has a close encounter/mid air collision simply because they could not/would not/did not take the time to plot out these sorts of gobbly gook NOTAMs? How hard can it be to supply this information in a small map which can give pilots an instant picture of whether it is going to affect them or not? Even a link provided for each NOTAM/SIGMET (which has coordinates defining its area) to a map website which can show the area boundary would be a great improvement.
I think it is time...
I could go on. Survey aircraft often supply map type information to ATC which certainly must help when they interact over the airwaves about what umpteenth run they are up to now... Pilots are left to make up their own mental picture of the operating area - if they can be bothered.
Not only that but in 'this day and age,' experts everywhere are telling us of the impending drone explosion. So I guess we can expect to see an awful lot more NOTAMs like this one:
MELBOURNE FIR (YMMM)
C7604/13
UNMANNED AERIAL VEHICLE (UAV) OPERATIONS WITHIN THE AREAS PRESCRIBED
BELOW:
AREA A:
LATERAL LIMITS: S21 20.9 E115 01.5, S21 35.8 E115 02.9, S21 45.6 E114
17.1, S21 30.0 E114 14.8, S21 20.9 E115 01.5.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - 1000'
AREA B:
LATERAL LIMITS: S21 35.8 E115 02.9, S21 41.4 E115 02.9, S21 43.4 E114
53.5, S21 38.5 E114 50.5, S21 35.8 E115 02.9.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - 500'
AREA C:
LATERAL LIMITS: S21 26.4 E115 02.0, S21 28.7 E115 02.3, S21 28.7 E114
57.2, S21 26.3 E114 57.1, S21 26.4 E115 02.0.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - 5000'
CALLSIGN UNMANNED AEROSONDE
PIC WILL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON 122.4, 125.9 (ML CEN) & 120.1
(CTAF) DURING FLIGHT OPS. MELBOURNE CENTRE WILL HAVE IFR FLIGHT PLAN
DETAILS.
CONTACT PAUL HERRMANN ON 0438 581 003 FOR FURTHER DETAILS.
FROM 12 042200 TO 12 201000
HJ
How long is it going to take before someone has a close encounter/mid air collision simply because they could not/would not/did not take the time to plot out these sorts of gobbly gook NOTAMs? How hard can it be to supply this information in a small map which can give pilots an instant picture of whether it is going to affect them or not? Even a link provided for each NOTAM/SIGMET (which has coordinates defining its area) to a map website which can show the area boundary would be a great improvement.
I think it is time...
On jeppfd under the wx button you can see map representations of ice/turbs areas. I'm not sure of the information source, so i doubt they are "approved" but certainly are handy. They appear far more detailed than sigmet dimensions too. I do agree that map representations issued by the BoM would be exceedingly useful.
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Idea of the year mate, good call, it's always been an issue.
Perhaps our friends at OZRunways could assist and put the functionality into their product; perhaps automatically might be a stretch but maybe if I put in say 4 user waypoints I could use OZRunways to draw a line automatically between them to build a box, eg a fire zone, storm front, temporary restricted area.
Perhaps our friends at OZRunways could assist and put the functionality into their product; perhaps automatically might be a stretch but maybe if I put in say 4 user waypoints I could use OZRunways to draw a line automatically between them to build a box, eg a fire zone, storm front, temporary restricted area.
Those NOTAMs (survey & UAV) are normally submitted by the operator, and one reason why a contact is usually listed.
Chew their ear - tell 'em next time submit a map when they want a NOTAM. The map can be loaded to AVFAX.
It might sound simple, but adding a map generation facility to any system particularly operational ones like Eurocat, NAIPS etc. isn't cheap, and difficult to justify when the solution is simple: the originators of such NOTAM can - and should be obliged to - submit a map with their request.
Chew their ear - tell 'em next time submit a map when they want a NOTAM. The map can be loaded to AVFAX.
It might sound simple, but adding a map generation facility to any system particularly operational ones like Eurocat, NAIPS etc. isn't cheap, and difficult to justify when the solution is simple: the originators of such NOTAM can - and should be obliged to - submit a map with their request.
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There is something called SkyVector: Flight Planning / Aeronautical Charts that contains sigmets.
Look in the top-right corner under layers ... there is a blue icon at the top of the list
Not sure if it works for Tatooine though!
Look in the top-right corner under layers ... there is a blue icon at the top of the list
Not sure if it works for Tatooine though!
I have long believed these SIGMETs and NOTAMs were a perfect starting point for the "holes in the swiss cheese" to begin lining up. Good to see so many others think the same thing!
I guess you could contact the said Mr Paul Hermann on the number supplied and ask him for a copy of HIS map to be sent via PDF....
On the other hand, HE could have taken the initiative and supplied same, as a service, up front..!!
Perhaps IF we 'all' sent a similar request..??
In the 'Ole F.S.' days, we used to draw the areas on the approp. map, and advise pilots that the 'SIGMET' area, or whatever it was, would affect his flight, on his/her track, between 'Points' / positions xxx or whatever....at /up to levels yyy ....
Keep it simple....
On the other hand, HE could have taken the initiative and supplied same, as a service, up front..!!
Perhaps IF we 'all' sent a similar request..??
In the 'Ole F.S.' days, we used to draw the areas on the approp. map, and advise pilots that the 'SIGMET' area, or whatever it was, would affect his flight, on his/her track, between 'Points' / positions xxx or whatever....at /up to levels yyy ....
Keep it simple....
How long is it going to take before someone has a close encounter/mid air collision simply because they could not/would not/did not take the time to plot out these sorts of gobbly gook NOTAMs?
I once did a safety investigation for an aircraft who flew through a naval firing zone restricted area (whilst firing taking place) overseas.
There was about 10 pages of 6pt notams for the copilots to read every day. Very easy to miss one area as the notams were for many FIR's and contained a jillion lat/Lon's and restricted areas. No ops support to pick the relevant ones.
Until they move away from CAPS (also terrible for the human eye to read and skim) and embrace technology post 1992, then this will happen forever.
As for auto maps, this is a very very difficult problem. Notams aren't in specific formats that a computer can easily go through. Often things will say "A circle of radius 200nm extending to .....". For a computer to understand that is near impossible. The only reliable way of plotting these is human, which is prone to human error.
There is no good answer. Your options are:
1) Bad computer interpretation
2) Better, but time consuming human interpretation, or
3) Some kind of miracle that the worldwide notam messaging system awakes from the dark ages.
There was about 10 pages of 6pt notams for the copilots to read every day. Very easy to miss one area as the notams were for many FIR's and contained a jillion lat/Lon's and restricted areas. No ops support to pick the relevant ones.
Until they move away from CAPS (also terrible for the human eye to read and skim) and embrace technology post 1992, then this will happen forever.
As for auto maps, this is a very very difficult problem. Notams aren't in specific formats that a computer can easily go through. Often things will say "A circle of radius 200nm extending to .....". For a computer to understand that is near impossible. The only reliable way of plotting these is human, which is prone to human error.
There is no good answer. Your options are:
1) Bad computer interpretation
2) Better, but time consuming human interpretation, or
3) Some kind of miracle that the worldwide notam messaging system awakes from the dark ages.
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Hey Shaggers, would it be possible to "link" coordinates in OZRunways? If so one could at least manually enter in a series of points (copy and paste perhaps?) and link them to draw a danger area? Easy input would be the key.
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Good to see others would like to see some change in this area also. What about this for an idea? I understand 'auto generated' mapping could be cost prohibitive and complicated. There is currently a 'charts' function which shows SIGWX and other chart style information. What about a ML/BN SIGMET chart/s? Every time a SIGMET is updated the chart can be updated and accessed electronically.
Likewise a NOTAM chart/s where MIL LJRs, drones, survey operators etc can provide a chart for publication (or a basic one can be drawn) and then published. The text NOTAM can be generated as is the case now but there can be reference made to the relevant NOTAM chart. A slightly different version of this is exemplified by the recent AIP SUP H134/13 military TRA. There is a text NOTAM out but it also refers you to the AIP SUP which contains a lovely colour VTC excerpt showing the area concerned.
I for one would be more than happy to take a quick scan of a SIGMET and NOTAM chart information pages in addition to text WX/NOTAMs.
Likewise a NOTAM chart/s where MIL LJRs, drones, survey operators etc can provide a chart for publication (or a basic one can be drawn) and then published. The text NOTAM can be generated as is the case now but there can be reference made to the relevant NOTAM chart. A slightly different version of this is exemplified by the recent AIP SUP H134/13 military TRA. There is a text NOTAM out but it also refers you to the AIP SUP which contains a lovely colour VTC excerpt showing the area concerned.
I for one would be more than happy to take a quick scan of a SIGMET and NOTAM chart information pages in addition to text WX/NOTAMs.
Surely this can't be too difficult, once upon a time I could have probably coded it myself, but basically retrieve the relevant NOTAMS, have it recognise any Lat and Longs and then pin pointing it on a map and any others within a certain number of Characters. This shouldn't be terribly difficult for anyone with an up-to-date knowledge of coding and the desire to put it together. It would be kind of like Command Flight Planner, for instance, when you select Area 40 it recognises there are are different areas designated for wind (Today for instance it was NE and SW of a trough) and you can select which one to use for your flight planning winds.
I have not actually used this online software before so I cannot vouch for its accuracy or quality but according to its description it does map out SIGMETs for Australia.
Product Tour: Weather ? World Flight Planner
It is $10(CAD)/month. I have thought about it but I don't know if I really want to spend $120/year just for the benefit of the SIGMET charts because that would be the only feature I'd be using.
I too feel that SIGMET charts should be produced by either BoM or AsA and made available to us through NAIPS. Would reduce the amount of headaches during flight planning.
Product Tour: Weather ? World Flight Planner
It is $10(CAD)/month. I have thought about it but I don't know if I really want to spend $120/year just for the benefit of the SIGMET charts because that would be the only feature I'd be using.
I too feel that SIGMET charts should be produced by either BoM or AsA and made available to us through NAIPS. Would reduce the amount of headaches during flight planning.
AvPlan also plots SIGMET's as well, and has done so for a while.
The problems with notam's and determining applicability to flight (basically adding some form of standard referencing to them) is why there is an emerging standard around digital NOTAM which Eurocontrol have been working on for a while.
Unfortunately its taken a while, and will continue to take a while before we get any operational benefit from it.
Bevan..
The problems with notam's and determining applicability to flight (basically adding some form of standard referencing to them) is why there is an emerging standard around digital NOTAM which Eurocontrol have been working on for a while.
Unfortunately its taken a while, and will continue to take a while before we get any operational benefit from it.
Bevan..
Surely this can't be too difficult, once upon a time I could have probably coded it myself, but basically retrieve the relevant NOTAMS, have it recognise any Lat and Longs and then pin pointing it on a map and any others within a certain number of Characters. This shouldn't be terribly difficult for anyone with an up-to-date knowledge of coding and the desire to put it together.
If the format rarely changes, like sigmets, then you can make assumptions on what they mean. This is how OzRunways, AvPlan and SkyVector draw sigmets presumably. But notams vary widely. The best you could hope for is a tool that recognises the points on a map and allow you to see the points and make up your own mind what they all mean or how to connect them. Even then, something like "10nm north of 12S 123E" wouldn't show up.
The only real solution is a clean sheet look at notams for the 21st century. Good luck with that.