Angel Flight and Experimental Aircraft
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Angel Flight and Experimental Aircraft
Angel Flight have just stopped using experimental category aircraft as part of their operation, siting "On advise from their independent advisors" no other information is given.
The last incident that I know of with an angel flight was with an IFR Twin Comanche that had a wheels up, to my knowledge no incidents with experimental category aircraft.
Does anyone have any info on why angel flight may be taking this particular step with experimental category aircraft?
The last incident that I know of with an angel flight was with an IFR Twin Comanche that had a wheels up, to my knowledge no incidents with experimental category aircraft.
Does anyone have any info on why angel flight may be taking this particular step with experimental category aircraft?
I have no inside knowledge, but I can imagine they are under a fair bit of scrutiny. The ATSB report of the fatality near Hosham must be very, very close to being released.
Your aircraft might be very good but the truth is that are not required to meet certification standards as high as those for production aircraft and the press would have a field day if there was an accident with one. The AC on the experimental category alone represents rich pickings for quotes.
Frankly, I'm surprised that they ever allowed it.
Your aircraft might be very good but the truth is that are not required to meet certification standards as high as those for production aircraft and the press would have a field day if there was an accident with one. The AC on the experimental category alone represents rich pickings for quotes.
Experimental amateur built aircraft include an aircraft that is fabricated and assembled by a person for their own education or recreation.
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I have done a fair few angel flights in my time, to be fair nobody is really looking in to how the aircrafts are maintained or indeed the pilots general experience, I think it is time they regulated whom and what can fly there pax to the hospitals etc
Stalker, I think you are a bit out of date. Copies of all licences are required and every flight requires a declaration by the pilot that everything is correct. They tightened things up about 2 years ago and are pretty much world's best practice for Angel Flight operations.
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The Pilot qualifications flying my experimental and conducting Angel Flights surely cannot be questioned, please pipe up if you see something wrong with current airline pilots ie current Instrument rating, Aircraft rating, Class 1 medical, including a normal BFR on type ie the experimental as per insurance company requirements, having flown before they started driving cars, and having flown everything from the Tiger Moth to Boeing 747-400, average total time approx 15,000hrs
Last edited by yepppp; 26th Nov 2013 at 10:10.
I had a look at Angel Flight about 12 months ago, with a view to ultimately helping out in a flying capacity. Unfortunately my random availability meant I was, rightly, unsuitable. Whilst I applaud the thrust behind the organisation and the terrific work done by those who serve it in many different capacities, I was more than a tad concerned by the low experience minimums required. I'm sure there are some skilled and safe 250 PIC time pilots out there, but that minimum seems low for this task. It's a difficult problem, they need pilots to help and perhaps those with more desirable experience do not have the time nor means to lend a hand. All the best to them, a very noble cause - hope it can all be done safely.
The Pilot qualifications flying my experimental and conducting Angel Flights surely cannot be questioned, please pipe up if you see something wrong with current airline pilots ie current Instrument rating, Aircraft rating, Class 1 medical, including a normal BFR on type ie the experimental as per insurance company requirements, having flown before they started driving cars, and having flown everything from the Tiger Moth to Boeing 747-400, average total time approx 15,000hrs
I have found Angel Flight to be 'on the ball' with regard to the various 'paper-work' requirements..... e'g'. BFR's, Medicals etc.
And I have always responded accordingly.
Why do you not simply send them an email and ask, or give them a ring..??
Cheers
And I have always responded accordingly.
Why do you not simply send them an email and ask, or give them a ring..??
Cheers
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A commercial IFR charter pilot could be flying you around with 200hrs PIC.... 250 is fair. No different taking a sick passenger versus a dozen tourists in a Caravan. Hours are not a good measure.
I'm not sure I would necessarily want my cancer stricken relative flying in someone's home built KR2 for example, which technically they were permitting. Banning experimental isn't necessarily a great idea either as a measure of airworthiness. A difficult situation to manage however they are starting with the obvious, or at least when something had gone wrong with an experimental home built, the Nancy's would have been screaming about it.
I'm not sure I would necessarily want my cancer stricken relative flying in someone's home built KR2 for example, which technically they were permitting. Banning experimental isn't necessarily a great idea either as a measure of airworthiness. A difficult situation to manage however they are starting with the obvious, or at least when something had gone wrong with an experimental home built, the Nancy's would have been screaming about it.
yepppp, look at it from the outside. To the uninformed eye what sort of image is conveyed by using an aircraft labelled "experimental" for an organisation providing a service to medically vulnerable people? Not a great one, particularly if something goes wrong.
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yeppppp
You might not be suprised at just how many Command Instrument Rated pilots there are with IFR experimental planes doing Angel flights, many are current B767/A330 Captains, and none of the machines I am familiar with are sloppy at all.
In fact they are far more airworthy than the certified clapped out old dungers that would otherwise be deemed acceptable, but are not up to my standard for an IFR flight.
When this came out last week I had no less than 4 emails within an hour, and I reckon AF had that or more.
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As for the accident, the fatal one, it was a certified VFR Cherokee, and was in my opinion flown into bad and then worse weather.....and darkness. I can think of one Lancair, and several RV's that I would rather my family were flown in.
Yepppp, I think you would be one of them. I reckon I know who you are even with a couple of posts.
Anyway I have been too busy of late. And Thursday will be 7 sectors and 1000NM of flying for me, so it is not like I need to do more.
You might not be suprised at just how many Command Instrument Rated pilots there are with IFR experimental planes doing Angel flights, many are current B767/A330 Captains, and none of the machines I am familiar with are sloppy at all.
In fact they are far more airworthy than the certified clapped out old dungers that would otherwise be deemed acceptable, but are not up to my standard for an IFR flight.
When this came out last week I had no less than 4 emails within an hour, and I reckon AF had that or more.
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As for the accident, the fatal one, it was a certified VFR Cherokee, and was in my opinion flown into bad and then worse weather.....and darkness. I can think of one Lancair, and several RV's that I would rather my family were flown in.
Yepppp, I think you would be one of them. I reckon I know who you are even with a couple of posts.
Anyway I have been too busy of late. And Thursday will be 7 sectors and 1000NM of flying for me, so it is not like I need to do more.
Folks,
Old Akro had it right, Angel Flight type flights are NOT a permitted use for any "Experimental" cat. aircraft, and as for Experiment Amateur Built, the legislation is really quite unambiguous.
Tootle pip!!
Old Akro had it right, Angel Flight type flights are NOT a permitted use for any "Experimental" cat. aircraft, and as for Experiment Amateur Built, the legislation is really quite unambiguous.
Tootle pip!!
A commercial IFR charter pilot could be flying you around with 200hrs PIC.... 250 is fair. No different taking a sick passenger versus a dozen tourists in a Caravan. Hours are not a good measure.
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That's a real pity! An experimental airplane will be joining the registry real soon, a quick one! I was looking forward to doing as much as I could.
And my aircraft is better built than any certified 'equivalent' it has more modern & TSO'd nav equipment than the vast majority of light aircraft on the certified registry. It has triple redundancy. If even one rivet was not within tolerance it was removed and re-done.
It even has TSO'd ADSB
Pity
And my aircraft is better built than any certified 'equivalent' it has more modern & TSO'd nav equipment than the vast majority of light aircraft on the certified registry. It has triple redundancy. If even one rivet was not within tolerance it was removed and re-done.
It even has TSO'd ADSB
Pity
And my aircraft is better built than any certified 'equivalent'
But overall, if there is an incident with an experimental aircraft, its just a bad look that would be very hard to defend. If it is owner maintained there is a whole new realm of drama. If you read the CASA AC on the experimental category and look at the intent behind the category, the press would have a large amount of ammunition to attack Angel Flight.
For certified aircraft, all roads lead back to CASA. If its a pilot problem then it goes back to the CASA licencing, currency and flight review system. If its an airworthiness / maintenance issue it goes back to CASA, if it is an aircraft design issue it goes back to CASA.
Experimental is supposed to be a mechanism to build an aeroplane for skill development / recreation then fly it with friends and family who understand its history and can make an informed decision about flying in it. An Angel Flight passenger who has an allocated aircraft arrive to transport them does not have the same opportunity to make an informed decision about flying in the aircraft.
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I hear what you're saying old mate, and I actually agree with you I wouldn't let any of my family in an experimental aircraft unless I knew the plane and pilot.
Matter of fact I don't get in the back of any light aircraft unless I know the pilot very well whether it's experimental or certified!
I wouldn't let any of my family in an experimental aircraft unless I knew the plane and pilot.Matter of fact I don't get in the back of any light aircraft unless I know the pilot very well whether it's experimental or certified!