Garmin drops Aussie weather information on GAR56 units
Thread Starter
Garmin drops Aussie weather information on GAR56 units
I have two aircraft, each of which carries an Iridium GSR56 Garmin unit. I have just discovered that all the METARs and TAFs for anything other than the major city airports in Australia have disappeared. In contacting Garmin, they have told me:
I should point out that until 2012 all of the smaller airports were transmitted by the Iridium GSR56 unit.
This seems extraordinary! Does anyone have any information on this issue? Can you imagine – you pay a huge amount of money for the service and then they drop 95% of the information and don’t even inform anyone!
I also cannot understand why Garmin should be charged some huge amount of money when anyone can go onto NAIPs and get the TAFs and METARs free! This is, of course, a safety issue – more and more aircraft will have this GSR56 Iridium download weather information fitted to their aircraft, but if most of the airports do not appear it is a complete disaster.
I look forward to advice from anyone who has any expertise on this. Possibly someone from Airservices can advise what the charge would be for Garmin to get this extra information, if there is any charge.
The Australian BOM (Bureau of Meteorology) does not include the information for the smaller Airports as from 16th October 2012, as part of the information we purchase from Air Services Australia. The reply we have received:
"According to the contractual arrangements relating to aviation funded data held by the Bureau of Meteorology, these data must not be provided by the Bureau of Meteorology to external clients. All operational data for aviation should be received through Australia’s Aviation Information Service (AIS), Airservices Australia at Flight Briefing | Airservices
"According to the contractual arrangements relating to aviation funded data held by the Bureau of Meteorology, these data must not be provided by the Bureau of Meteorology to external clients. All operational data for aviation should be received through Australia’s Aviation Information Service (AIS), Airservices Australia at Flight Briefing | Airservices
This seems extraordinary! Does anyone have any information on this issue? Can you imagine – you pay a huge amount of money for the service and then they drop 95% of the information and don’t even inform anyone!
I also cannot understand why Garmin should be charged some huge amount of money when anyone can go onto NAIPs and get the TAFs and METARs free! This is, of course, a safety issue – more and more aircraft will have this GSR56 Iridium download weather information fitted to their aircraft, but if most of the airports do not appear it is a complete disaster.
I look forward to advice from anyone who has any expertise on this. Possibly someone from Airservices can advise what the charge would be for Garmin to get this extra information, if there is any charge.
Last edited by Dick Smith; 4th Oct 2013 at 01:13.
Dick, as far as I can tell the issue is the "source" of data used for preflight/inflight operational purposes.
I use an app called aeroweather and it doesn't have Australian BOM radar sites because of the same or similar restriction (can't remember the exact reason).
Perhaps the approach is to declare that the information provided through the garmin device is used only for "informational" purposes and all data used for operational decision making be sourced from AERIS, Volmet or similar.
The rules which describe what can be used for "operational" purposes is quite restrictive and there must be a way of managing it in a sensible way..
Seems the powers to be (whether it is ASA or CASA or BOM I don't know) have a concern about liability if someone uses a data source and then has a prang and the subsequent court of inquiry decides that they used "unofficial" data sources for operational reasons
I use an app called aeroweather and it doesn't have Australian BOM radar sites because of the same or similar restriction (can't remember the exact reason).
Perhaps the approach is to declare that the information provided through the garmin device is used only for "informational" purposes and all data used for operational decision making be sourced from AERIS, Volmet or similar.
The rules which describe what can be used for "operational" purposes is quite restrictive and there must be a way of managing it in a sensible way..
Seems the powers to be (whether it is ASA or CASA or BOM I don't know) have a concern about liability if someone uses a data source and then has a prang and the subsequent court of inquiry decides that they used "unofficial" data sources for operational reasons
Agreed Dick , I too have experienced a similar issue having paid for the Australian Oxford Dictionary App to find it is no longer supported and therefore no longer exists.
Very frustrating. I wonder if many more Apps etc have all the bells and whistles , sell a heap and then when demand wanes simply stop providing operational support and effectively 'wind it up'. Then move onto the next 'Hot' thing and the cycle repeats.
Back in your day Dick I think they were called Carpetbaggers.
Ooroo
Very frustrating. I wonder if many more Apps etc have all the bells and whistles , sell a heap and then when demand wanes simply stop providing operational support and effectively 'wind it up'. Then move onto the next 'Hot' thing and the cycle repeats.
Back in your day Dick I think they were called Carpetbaggers.
Ooroo
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"when anyone can go onto NAIPs and get the TAFs and METARs free!"
Often wondered, as its free, why you have to obtain a user name and password to access NAIPS.
Could it be that CAsA require this so when they ramp some unfortunate out in the boonies who says, "yeah got my weather via my Iphone" they can prove he didnt, thereby creating another "criminal" they hadnt caught up until now?
Remember the CAsA creed " Never let "safety" get in the way of a good prosecution!!
Often wondered, as its free, why you have to obtain a user name and password to access NAIPS.
Could it be that CAsA require this so when they ramp some unfortunate out in the boonies who says, "yeah got my weather via my Iphone" they can prove he didnt, thereby creating another "criminal" they hadnt caught up until now?
Remember the CAsA creed " Never let "safety" get in the way of a good prosecution!!
Last edited by thorn bird; 4th Oct 2013 at 07:27.
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I have never been able to get a NAIPS login since the change.
I mentioned this to a mate who told me he has always gotten his weather through AOPA.
but I'm not a member.
neither am I he said.
the aopa interface is better than airservices' and it works.
I mentioned this to a mate who told me he has always gotten his weather through AOPA.
but I'm not a member.
neither am I he said.
the aopa interface is better than airservices' and it works.
Just mount an external antenna on your Jet/Chopper/Caravan and use the 4G network. My iPhone and iPads can get NAIPS easily using Apps.
Probably wouldn't need an external antenna anyway, mine work ok as is.
Probably wouldn't need an external antenna anyway, mine work ok as is.
Last edited by nitpicker330; 4th Oct 2013 at 08:33.
Thread Starter
Jack. Don't go on with that misinformation. User pays was introduced by the Henry Bosch Report- before my time.
I was the one who reduced costs so the industry would pay less. Staff numbers down from 7000 to 3500 through the Review of Resources under Frank Baldwin.
I also removed the mandatory full reporting requirements for VFR aircraft. I'm just back from a circumnavigation of PNG in the Longranger. Had to put in a full position flight plan each day and I am waiting for the en-route charges to come in.
They cost the industry a fortune.
I was the one who reduced costs so the industry would pay less. Staff numbers down from 7000 to 3500 through the Review of Resources under Frank Baldwin.
I also removed the mandatory full reporting requirements for VFR aircraft. I'm just back from a circumnavigation of PNG in the Longranger. Had to put in a full position flight plan each day and I am waiting for the en-route charges to come in.
They cost the industry a fortune.
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genuinely glad to see you've been out flying Dick. keep it up.
its a pity you hadnt sacked the whole lot of them actually....
its a pity you hadnt sacked the whole lot of them actually....
Last edited by dubbleyew eight; 4th Oct 2013 at 12:04.
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Dick, I know it's a bit off topic, but where have your food products gone from the supermarket shelves?
Whenever I go to the supermarket I always try to buy a couple of your products.
Whenever I go to the supermarket I always try to buy a couple of your products.
Dick, this must be frustrating. I've just tried to update my Garmin maps for $100 but the update didn't work. Many emails later to Garmin and they can't explain the problem. That's it! Nothing more they can do! I will steer clear of Garmin from now on.
Thread Starter
Peter. We have never had better support from the Supermarkets for our Aussie products. Whenever we check a claim of no stock we always find them on the shelf. But hard to see as normally near the floor. The Supermarkets give the best positions for the products they make most money from. These will always be the imported products from the big multinationals.
Thanks for your support. We are plannning to donate over $1 million this year from DSF.
Thorn I got very little support from the industry when I explained to the Aussie public that safety regulations had to be affordable by those who pay- otherwise that part of the industry closes down. - just plain commonsense .
Some dopes even reckoned that I introduced " affordable safety". What rubbish - it's a fact of life otherwise participation levels will drop. As they now are in GA
Thanks for your support. We are plannning to donate over $1 million this year from DSF.
Thorn I got very little support from the industry when I explained to the Aussie public that safety regulations had to be affordable by those who pay- otherwise that part of the industry closes down. - just plain commonsense .
Some dopes even reckoned that I introduced " affordable safety". What rubbish - it's a fact of life otherwise participation levels will drop. As they now are in GA
Speaking of things of yore....
Who was it who introduced the phrase...(mantra)...
'Your Safety Will Be Enhanced And It Will Cost you Less'..??
It didn't then and it isn't now....
Cheers
Who was it who introduced the phrase...(mantra)...
'Your Safety Will Be Enhanced And It Will Cost you Less'..??
It didn't then and it isn't now....
Cheers
Thread Starter
I loved Flight Service. Especially how they would loan you a car in Ceduna, book you a hotel room in Charlieville , and phone the local newspaper every time I landed at Dubbo.
Problem was that the CAA Board decided to introduce en - route charges for VFR.
I solved that problem by removing the service.
Sorry Griffo - but many could not afford the duplicated FS/ATC system.
PNG retained the full position mandatory reporting system for VFR and now charge the industry a VFR en route charge for the service..
It's expensive !
Problem was that the CAA Board decided to introduce en - route charges for VFR.
I solved that problem by removing the service.
Sorry Griffo - but many could not afford the duplicated FS/ATC system.
PNG retained the full position mandatory reporting system for VFR and now charge the industry a VFR en route charge for the service..
It's expensive !
Folks,
Cast your mind back a few years, and the stoush between Jepp (and others) and Airservices, because Airservices asserted copyright over AIS data that Australia is treaty bound to provide, and which is normally provided free, in the ICAO format ??
Then consider the anal nature of Australian criminal law surrounding the provision of unapproved persons purporting to provide aviation "operational information". ie: for example, the huge crime of ringing someone up at an airfield and asking your mate to have a look out the window at the local weather --- that is, and unapproved observer yada yada yada.
I would hazard a guess that the answer lies somewhere here, aided and abetted by the CASA/Airservices/maybe others aversion to any suggestion of liability, and to hell with any adverse consequences for aviation safety.
Cast your mind back a few years, and the stoush between Jepp (and others) and Airservices, because Airservices asserted copyright over AIS data that Australia is treaty bound to provide, and which is normally provided free, in the ICAO format ??
Then consider the anal nature of Australian criminal law surrounding the provision of unapproved persons purporting to provide aviation "operational information". ie: for example, the huge crime of ringing someone up at an airfield and asking your mate to have a look out the window at the local weather --- that is, and unapproved observer yada yada yada.
I would hazard a guess that the answer lies somewhere here, aided and abetted by the CASA/Airservices/maybe others aversion to any suggestion of liability, and to hell with any adverse consequences for aviation safety.
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John Howard knew that there was a problem but didn't know what it was and didnt know how to fix it.
so he removed their immunity from prosecution.
I believe that some of their cases of bastardry have eventually cost them millions.
most definitely a clean out needed.
so he removed their immunity from prosecution.
I believe that some of their cases of bastardry have eventually cost them millions.
most definitely a clean out needed.
so he removed their immunity from prosecution.
Not so, in the CASA case, and CAA before it, the ability to sue and be sued was in the Civil Aviation Act 1988 from day1. Nothing to do with Howard.
About like the myth of who was responsible for "user pays" ( and it wasn't just aviation, it was "whole of Government") let's get the facts straight.