Wikiposts
Search
The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Two more Jabirus down

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 20th Aug 2013, 08:19
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Two more Jabirus down

It appears that the Jabiru curse has struck again, Two more Jabirus down in Queensland within 4 days. It's lucky they make a good crashworthy frame! - they need it, with the regularity of those engine failures!
What was it Jack Ranga said in another thread? - "If you want a Jabiru, just buy a paddock, there's a Jabiru engine in most paddocks!"

Plane makes emergency landing in Victoria Point paddock

Pilot uninjured in emergency landing at Parkinson
onetrack is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2013, 09:23
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 350
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not convinced that second one made it to the paddock the article says they landed on.
717tech is online now  
Old 20th Aug 2013, 09:41
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Perth
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pigs were never meant to fly
falconx is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2013, 10:09
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
717tech - I'd hazard a WAG that the second Jabiru landed in a paddock with trees at the far end of it! If he'd landed fully in that solidly-wooded country behind the aircraft, that Jabiru wouldn't look any near as pretty as it does now! - and we'd probably be reading about another light aircraft fatality!
onetrack is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2013, 10:20
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The little Jab in the article has a load of oil all over the nose leg assembly. Pilot was probably wondering what happened to his oil temperature and pressure...
VH-XXX is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2013, 10:21
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sarnia, ON
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Shame about 7984, that does at lot of flying around AF.
ABC news reported that it collected a barb-wired fence around its undercarriage on the way in - good thing it stayed right way up.
Hopefully it will be in the air again soon.
Volumex is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2013, 11:03
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 14 Posts
Pigs were never meant to fly
They did quiet well for many a year. That 'dump and burn' thing were great to see..






.
Flying Binghi is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2013, 13:17
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Probably why the ATSB are now conducting investigations like this

Research investigation into the reliability of light sport aeroplane engines

Most people probably would never air their true thoughts on a public
Forum about such incidents as this, I feel for fear of litigation.

Part of the problem for the ATSB is a lot of failures go unreported, plus
They don't tend To focus as much on recreational aircraft.
Perspective is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2013, 13:18
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 1A
Posts: 8,559
Received 76 Likes on 44 Posts
Pilot was probably wondering what happened to his oil temperature and pressure...
I can tell him! The first went up and the second went down!

PS: What's a Jabiru??
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2013, 22:38
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ...outside the wall...
Age: 68
Posts: 170
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
....A large wading bird of the stork family????....
ravan is online now  
Old 22nd Aug 2013, 05:16
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In a burrow
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Quote:
Pilot was probably wondering what happened to his oil temperature and pressure...
I can tell him! The first went up and the second went down!
Not necessarily Bloggs. I can tell you from experience that in a BAE146 (I am sure you remember those) when you lose oil qty, the psi drops, and the temp drops. After arriving on 3 engines one day and quizzing an engineer, he said as the qty drops below a certain level, the oil level drops below where the temp sensor will read it - causing the oil gauge temp to drop.
(By the way this one was not the famous "catastrophic" engine failure, this one was shut down before it got to that)
Capt Basil Brush is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2013, 07:01
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
rumour has it one of them ran out of motion lotion
Ultralights is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2013, 07:26
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: nosar
Posts: 1,289
Received 25 Likes on 13 Posts
There is an AD on Jabbies to replace the landing gear bolts every 500 hours. Perhaps this person forgot? It is an AD that you wuld ignore at your peril!

Or as an afternote perhaps this person was a contributing factor in the AD
Aussie Bob is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2013, 07:39
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: melb
Posts: 2,162
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Jabiru Are Bloody Inherently Really Ugly.....the true meaning

Wmk2
Wally Mk2 is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2013, 10:07
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Jab undercarriage bolts had a size upgrade some years back (eg An4 to An5 or similar. Replacing them at 500 hours isn't so bad, $30 worth of bolts and nuts and maybe an hours work so not a big deal.

Locking up a main wheel under braking (causing skipping) is a major contributor to losing the undercarriage. It's the reason why the Vans RV 12 kits were recently modified as owners locking up the brakes were causing skipping and subsequent bending around where the undercarriage attaches.

So Aairbatic, I don't believe you would need to be concerned about the Jabiru undercarriage in general. There's a video on the front page of their website that shows the undercarriage during certification drop tests, very impressive!

PS: I may happen to own one :-)

Thanks Wally, I assume you don't want a ride then?
Oh that's right, not enough engines :-) !!

Last edited by VH-XXX; 26th Aug 2013 at 11:02.
VH-XXX is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2013, 12:43
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You bought a Jab?...............You Goose
Jack Ranga is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2013, 12:59
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Mine doesn't have a Jab engine :-) Great airframe though, carries far more than it's empty weight in payload and at only 30hp per person. Try that in a 172 :-)
VH-XXX is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2013, 13:16
  #18 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There's at least one very unhappy Jabiru "crash-test-dummy" out there, who has instigated a sizeable website, asking a lot of questions about Jabirus that he wants answers to. I can't see him getting them.
Because the website owner hasn't indicated any recent updates to his website (and it appears a lot of his info is 4 to 12 yrs old), a lot of the info there may not be particularly relevant at this present time.

JabiruCrash.com - the story of my flight (and plane crash) in a Jabiru aircraft with Ron Bertram (deceased) - jabiru engine failure, Jabiru piston failure, ultralight

Another item I found that is probably of great relevance and interest to Jabiru engine owners, is this following blokes claim that all factory Jabirus have their pistons installed backwards.

Jabiru have installed their pistons backwards

As it appears the Jabiru merely uses standard Holden pistons, I'd be concerned about the fact they're being used - rather than aviation-specific pistons - or tailored pistons.

I can recall a story from a bloke who worked on the Holden engine factory assembly line, from many years ago, telling me how Holdens had three markings for pistons as they lobbed in the basket for checking prior to installation. These markings were dobs of green, yellow and red paint.

The pistons that met all specifications precisely (including weight, a critical factor) were dobbed with green paint. These pistons went into export engines only.

The pistons that met specifications with a shove, went into "domestic production" engines. These pistons could have flaws in machining or casting, that were not deemed to affect engine life seriously.

Then came the final group of pistons, those marked with red. These pistons hovered between "just usable" and bordered on the, "to be scrapped" range - due to being so far outside specifications, it was dubious as to whether they would produce a full engine life.
I was advised these pistons were duly installed in the engines of fleet purchase or rental vehicles, and Govt vehicles.
onetrack is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2013, 23:03
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I've read that Jabiru Crash in detail and there are a lot of allegations and a lot of mud being thrown in the hope that some of it will stick. Not just at Jabiru but even at the guy maintainting it and questioning of his credentials (now deceased after Bankstown crash).

Long story short, the aircraft suffered an engine failure into a wooded area.

The first page of the Jabiru flight manual mentions to fly the aircraft at all times as if the engine could fail at any time. It's good advice

As for the pistons, Jabiru's answer is that they are the other way around because the rotation of the Jabiru engine is opposite to that of the Holden Commodore. They are not actually Holden pistons, they are "like" Holden pistons and they are modified from the supplier to suit the Jabiru engine.

Likewise, the Rotax 912 has 100% interchangeable rockers with the Ford Falcon
VH-XXX is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2013, 23:26
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Onetrack,
I'm surprised that someone of your age believes this nonsense-
I can recall a story from a bloke who worked on the Holden engine factory assembly line, from many years ago, telling me how Holdens had three markings--------
Is this the same guy that worked for Mobil and helped suppress the engine that ran on water and later worked in a Condom factory where they put a pin hole in every 100th condom?
Before further efforts a made to ruin the reputation of a small Australian company perhaps you should acquire some knowledge on the subject.
This is shamelessly lifted from an article on modifying Holden engines:-
The majority of stock replacement type pistons have the gudgeon pin offset by about 0.060". The only reason for this is to reduce the tendency for the piston to slap after a cold start - the slight imbalance created by offsetting the pin makes the piston rock over relatively gently at TDC instead of "slapping" laterally from one side to the other. The amount of offset isn't great enough to have a material effect on performance, but despite this there is a persistent old wives tale to the effect that installing this type of pistons backwards will result in a power gain. If you remember any high school trigonometry (or you have a crank position vs. piston position vs. rod angle spreadsheet) you'll soon be able to work out that the small offset will have a negligible effect on rod angularity and piston thrust loads. And if you factor in the slight relocation of true TDC from reversing the pistons then the effect is even smaller. If you want to put the slugs in backwards go right ahead, you won't hurt anything. But don't expect the output to increase by any measurable amount. Of course all this only applies to stock style pistons - performance or racing pistons generally have zero offset.
Cheers RA
rutan around is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.