The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

New student pilot

Old 11th Aug 2013, 15:47
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
Age: 31
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Angel New student pilot

G'day!

I am new GA, I have just 9 hours so far and am on a SPL.

I was with a school in MB flying the Jabiru but I was not happy with my instructor (nothing personal I just didn't feel happy) so joined another school who use the C152, I personally prefer this aircraft to the Jabiru.

Do you think I did the right thing to change from the Jabiru to C152? does it make much of a difference?

I am hoping to get my GFPT by the end of October if the weather permits

My dream would be to fly solo from Melbourne to Cairns to visit my Gran

I am reading the Aviation theory center BAK book and also the radio telephony book. I have also been given another flying manual which I go through before each flight.

So far the theory aspect is ok & not too complicated for me, one thing I don't quite fully understand is why we land in to the wind? would it not be quicker to land with the wind to arrive earlier?

well I am glad I found this site, I hope it is ok for people like me to post.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 00:27
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G'Day Nancy,

Welcome to the site - I won't speak for the Mods, but I'm sure it's fine for you to post here. Hopefully some of the personalities that lurk these pages might remember why they started in this line of work in the first place and regain sight of what is fundamentally important about aviation - to enjoy it!

Nevertheless - Melbourne to Cairns solo is a solid undertaking - you'll love it when you do it. Make sure you take a few days to stop along the way and see the sights, otherwise you may as well do it in the back of a jet - boring...

Jabiru vs C152 - I won't open that can of worms (much like a Ford vs Holden debate...) by my personal opinion is that you have made a sound decision. The 152 is a tried and true trainer and many of us have their first solo hours in one (for me, I fondly remember VH-HCC at RQAC - painted olive green, of all colours...).

Studying before each flight is essential - stay on that track and you'll be fine.

Landing into wind? Essentially, it means we don't use as much runway after we touch down (ie less landing distance required) and the lower groundspeed for touchdown is more easily absorbed by the brakes (they'll last longer!). It also causes the aircraft to climb steeper (ie greater angle of climb) than nil wind or tail wind in the event of a go around. This, in turn, gives us better clearance margins over obstacles such as trees / powerlines / houses at the far end of the runway. Check out the graphs in Section 5 of the C152 Pilot Operating Handbook - you'll see what I mean when you do a chart with a 5 knot headwind vs a 5 knot tailwind... Arriving quicker in aeroplanes is not always the best outcome!

Anyway, back to work for me - enjoy the journey!

Last edited by Flying Bear; 12th Aug 2013 at 00:29.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 00:28
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 02:06
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Whether or not you have realised this Nancy Bird, when you started in the Jabiru you were training for your Pilot Certificate under Recreational Aviation Australia and then when you moved to the 152 you were working towards your General Aviation Private Pilots Lience - they are vastly different. (This is assuming that you started your training at Soar Aviation at Moorabbin, their website says that they only do RA-Aus training)

If you want to be able to fly in controlled airspace and in large aircraft (larger than 2 seats), at night, day, under instrument conditions etc, then you are on the right path now with the 152.

Someone once described the difference between the RA-Aus Pilot Certificate and the GA PPL as being like a TAFE course compared to a University Degree. They both do a somewhat similar thing in the end, but are vastly different in terms of how you get there and where you can go.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 02:53
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Take your time, do your research, study hard and enjoy the journey.

Remember its your job to do the work, your instructor can only give you the tools to get there, but saying that, ask as many questions as you can think of, and if you don't think the answers are helping, keep asking.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 04:00
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Take your time, do your research, study hard and enjoy the journey.
After each dual flight until you have done your first solo, review your progress with the instructor. You state you have nine hours experience. Normally that means you are close to first solo. That said, so much depends on the skill and enthusiasm of your flying instructor as well as your own personal ability to fly. What you need to avoid is excessive dual to solo ratio of flying hours. All things being equal if up to 12-15 hours dual and still not solo, then you need to be wary.

Where possible from now on, try to be scheduled with a grade one instructor such as the CFI. Too many junior instructors, themselves inexperienced pilots, may hang on to you to earn more money dual and have difficulty due to their inexperience, to gauge when you are ready for first solo. Of course it also depends on how often you fly. Meanwhile spend some time practicing flying a synthetic trainer. If flying weather is unsuitable then don't waste the day - practice basic flying techniques in the simulator.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 07:43
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Hi Nancy. Welcome to PPRuNe.

why we land in to the wind? would it not be quicker to land with the wind to arrive earlier?
While coming in to land, your aircraft's speed is very slow. At slow speeds, a headwind will allow you to land safely without dropping(stalling). Sometimes, quicker is not better (or safer). Anyway, you have headwind only when you are on finals, which is a very small portion of your flight.

This was a simple explanation. If you want to learn more, read up about Lift in the BAK book or Aerodynamics book. You can also ask again here.

Focus on one flight at a time and have fun!
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 09:02
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Whether or not you have realised this Nancy Bird, when you started in the Jabiru you were training for your Pilot Certificate under Recreational Aviation Australia
unless of course, its a VH rego Jabiru.

in the end, aircraft type shouldn't make a difference, what will make a difference is how you feel with your instructor, a good relationship will be far more beneficial than one you dont like. a good instructor will teach you just as well regardless of aircraft type.

my instructors tip. DO YOUR HOMEWORK! remember, Prior preparation prevents pss poor performance, this even goes for training, after your lesson debriefing, ask for the material on the next lesson. take it home and read up on it.. while going over the texts about your next lesson, dont be afraid to ask your instructor questions about the next flight while doing your homework.(via sms is the better way) good instructors will let you do this, and even encourage it. it will put you in a league above the students that dont. making you a better pilot, and save money as well.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 09:32
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Landing Into Wind.

Hi Nancy and welcome to PPRuNe! I wish you the best in pursuing your flying career. I myself have flown from Melbourne to Cairns and it's absolutely spectacular.!

The reason why we land into wind is because it allows us to fly an approach on final at a slower Ground speed. This enables us too use less runway when coming to a complete stop. Same reason why we take off into a headwind.

Flying into wind also provides us with a steeper approach path/angle. This helps us clear obstacles that may or may not obstruct our flight path towards the runway.
Hope this helps, enjoy and safe flying.!

T&G
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 10:02
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unless of course, its a VH rego Jabiru.
Ultralights... The point is that there aren't any at Moorabbin. The average new punter (no offence Nancy) wouldn't know the difference between RAA and GA so I hope I cleared that up a little.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 10:43
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A37575
Where possible from now on, try to be scheduled with a grade one instructor such as the CFI. Too many junior instructors, themselves inexperienced pilots, may hang on to you to earn more money dual and have difficulty due to their inexperience, to gauge when you are ready for first solo
If this statement sums up the general state of the play in Oz so far as instructors go then things are in a pretty sorry state.

Sure some of the flying schedule should be with the CFI but it's not practical for every student to fly all their lessons with the CFI.

Those junior instructors need to get experience, remember the Grade 1 was a junior instructor once. If the junior instructors have been trained properly and the Grade 1 or CFI is mentoring them properly there should not be any problems.

If the junior instructor doesn't have any idea when a student is ready to go solo then their training/mentoring is deficient. If the instructor is "hanging on to students in order to get more money then the CFI isn't doing their job properly.

I would hazard a guess that word would soon get around the students if any junior instructor was in the habit of "hanging on" to students for the instructors financial gain.

I would seriously question the value of a synthetic trainer at this early stage of flying.

Last edited by 27/09; 12th Aug 2013 at 10:48.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 13:15
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Join Date: Aug 2013
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Thumbs up

G'day,

Thank you for the tips & advice, really nice to see my fellow aviators helping me out.

My current instructor is a Grade 3, I thought that was a good thing! is grade 3 not the highest level? and grade 1 the lowest or have I missed something?

My aim is to train towards a GFTP, and then PPL, that is as far as I want to go right now, I couldn't see my self flying at night or in instrument conditions! I will leave that for the professionals

I have another lesson midweek!

Thank you for the reply's about headwind it sort of makes more sense now

Going a bit off topic! my mum asked me a question the other day and I could not answer! perhaps someone here knows?? obviously a propeller spins around and creates the thrust which makes you move along on ground and in the air, but on the Qantas planes they don't have propellers so what is creating the thrust? is there a hidden propeller you just cant see it??

Many thanks to everyone for support
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 22:28
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Something not quite right here!
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 22:43
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Love the comment, " At slow speeds, a headwind will allow you to land safely without dropping(stalling). " WTF?

Last edited by triathlon; 12th Aug 2013 at 22:45. Reason: Typo
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Old 13th Aug 2013, 00:10
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Something not quite right here!
Touche!
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Old 13th Aug 2013, 00:19
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Capt Fathom,
I also am smelling a rat. ie someone who uses the expression "instrument conditions" but also asks about into wind landings and "Qantas planes". Sounds like a beat up. Cute, but getting more obvious. Wish I had thought of it first.
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Old 13th Aug 2013, 00:22
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Old 13th Aug 2013, 00:22
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the Qantas planes they don't have propellers so what is creating the thrust? is there a hidden propeller you just cant see it?
Yep, The hidden propeller pretty well covers it.
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Old 13th Aug 2013, 01:35
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Hidden propeller!
Ya cant see it because its attached to your hat, Gearloose!
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Old 13th Aug 2013, 03:58
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I like to give the benefit of the doubt, but tis smelling more fruity by the moment.

Could be the real deal though?
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