Rusty IFR question on SARWATCH / SARTIME
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Rusty IFR question on SARWATCH / SARTIME
Have recently renewed my MECIR after a long break and now starting to go further afield. Taking a run YBAF-YGDI-YBAF as AWK. Would like to plan IFR and do a practice GPS NPA on arrival. ERSA says VHF comms at YGDI with BN Centre available at 3,500 FT. No HF on board.
Options?
Options?
- Can’t plan IFR as continuous comms needed.
- Cancel SARWATCH at some point prior to commencing the NPA above 3,500 FT (NPA entry is at 2,500) with an optional SARTIME for Dep YGDI - obvioulsy this will still be a fair way out - kind of drawing a long bow for continuous communications
- Fly VFR last leg (if able) with a SARTIME for Arr/Dep YGDI
Last edited by blacksmith; 18th Jul 2013 at 05:48.
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Not sure if Brisbane Centre have a number that should be used in their half of the country, but in the lower half of the country you can cancel Sarwatch for IFR flights by phone using this number 03 9235 2039 after you land.
EDIT:
Just found this number 07 3866 3868 in my phone for BN FIR Sarwatch.
Reference in ERSA INTRO-1, Full Reporting Arrivals.
EDIT:
Just found this number 07 3866 3868 in my phone for BN FIR Sarwatch.
Reference in ERSA INTRO-1, Full Reporting Arrivals.
Last edited by uncopilot; 18th Jul 2013 at 06:16.
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Could also give an ops normal time for completing the approach while above 3,500ft and then ring immediately after shutdown to cancel the SARWATCH by phone. Ring again prior to start up and establish a SARTIME for departure.
Technically, if you are not monitoring HF on the arrival you should also advise 'changing to CTAF...' which will then leave you responsible for traffic awareness. Saves the situation of an IFR aircraft reporting taxiing while you are on finals and Centre trying to call you to give you the traffic information which of course you will be out of range and unable to communicate with them about.
Also, even though you can't contact Centre on the ground, don't forget to broadcast so that other IFR aircraft can find out about you as you prepare to depart.
Technically, if you are not monitoring HF on the arrival you should also advise 'changing to CTAF...' which will then leave you responsible for traffic awareness. Saves the situation of an IFR aircraft reporting taxiing while you are on finals and Centre trying to call you to give you the traffic information which of course you will be out of range and unable to communicate with them about.
Also, even though you can't contact Centre on the ground, don't forget to broadcast so that other IFR aircraft can find out about you as you prepare to depart.
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Until you crash in the cct Jabba, when are we most at risk in flight? At 9000' or in the cct in bad wx? Continues two way radio communication is pretty clear I'd say if you can't talk to them by radio you don't meet the requirement! Phones are not radios.
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So what do you do even if you do have HF and it is one of those bad uncooperative ionosphere, too many solar flares, bird poop on the antenna days when you can't get 2 ways on HF either? Don't go? Turn around and go home? Tell the punters "Sorry, we are stuck here until the solar flares settle down in a few days"?
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Captain N,
you forgot the day when you hit a bird and break the aerial. It's ok just interpret the rules as you please just don't come complaining when CASA give you a please explain.
OCTA
you forgot the day when you hit a bird and break the aerial. It's ok just interpret the rules as you please just don't come complaining when CASA give you a please explain.
OCTA
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Seems OCTA doesn't fly OCTA very much! You must live in a perfect aviation world? Flown around the Kimberly much mate? Phones work better than HF in most places. They are an excellent BACK UP if you need it
Last edited by Pilotshumornetwork; 19th Jul 2013 at 10:40.
Brisbane Centre don't have a problem when I ring them up after landing on the satphone to cancel SARWatch because the ionosphere is playing silly buggers OCTA. What do you do in that situation?
morno
morno
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Actually have flown and still do fly around the Kimberley (and can therefore spell it correctly) and also north qld for my day job. What do I do if i cant get in contact with HF? in 10 years I have never not been able to get in contact with center but I do carry a sat phone just in case.
Don't get me wrong I have no problem with having a sat phone as a back up I just do not believe that you can plan on using a phone to cover the requirement.
Can anyone here who disagrees show me a reference that proves me wrong or is it just "I've always done it so it must be ok?"
Don't get me wrong I have no problem with having a sat phone as a back up I just do not believe that you can plan on using a phone to cover the requirement.
Can anyone here who disagrees show me a reference that proves me wrong or is it just "I've always done it so it must be ok?"
Last edited by OCTA; 19th Jul 2013 at 11:05.
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All I have asked for is a reference to justify your position, if you can show me one I will apologise and buy you a beer if we ever run into each other. Blacksmith asked a question I have given my opinion as have you.
OCTA, what are these HF radios you use!? I'd love to know, so that next time my HF isn't working when I've tried 10 frequencies to contact Flightwatch (not centre, they don't have HF), I'll be sure to install one of these magic HF's in my aircraft.
morno
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I guess we will have to agree that I just have magic fingers with the HF but still both of you have not be able to show me a reference that a phone or sat phone is an acceptable means of two way communications for IFR.
The only way you can do it is down grade to VFR once visual and change to a SAR time for arrival.
The only way you can do it is down grade to VFR once visual and change to a SAR time for arrival.
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There are rules written exactly for the aforementioned scenario.
47.2 A pilot of an IFR flight must report when changing to the CTAF when the ATS frequency will not, or cannot, be monitored. This re- port must include the aerodrome location and frequency.
In this report include an 'Ops Normal Time' then:
Pilots wishing to cancel SARWATCH may do so by reporting to
ATS.
52.1.2 When cancelling SARWATCH, pilots must include:
a. the aircraft radio call-sign;
b. place of arrival or point from which SARWATCH services are no
longer required;
c. the words“CANCELSARWATCH”;and
d. when communicating with a unit other than that nominated,the
name of the ATS unit to which the report shall be relayed.
52.1.3 SARWATCH may be cancelled in combination with a pilot report of
changing to the CTAF, or in the circuit area, or after landing.
It does not mention the communication tool in order to provide that flexibility to the operator. I have used the good old telephone to Brizzie briefing after landing and before 'Ops Normal' expiry many a time. Or if you are taking off in the not too distant future you may wish to:
Pilots of other than IFR RPT flights, wishing to extend the SARWATCH for the period of landing and subsequent take-off, may nominate a SARTIME for departure when arriving at an aerodrome where radio or ground communication cannot reasonably be as- sured. SAR alerting action will be initiated if a taxiing or departure report is not received by the nominated SARTIME.
Easy answer (the above really is just padding on top of Captain Nomads post), you can be IFR and out of direct comms with ATC. It is impractical and a little naive to expect to be in direct contact all of the time in Australia. I couldn't be in direct contact all the time in the old P3 when the HF was busted, and we could still charge on outside VHF range (IFR no-comm was slightly different), the coastwatch boys can do the same thing.
Happy actual hours!
47.2 A pilot of an IFR flight must report when changing to the CTAF when the ATS frequency will not, or cannot, be monitored. This re- port must include the aerodrome location and frequency.
In this report include an 'Ops Normal Time' then:
Pilots wishing to cancel SARWATCH may do so by reporting to
ATS.
52.1.2 When cancelling SARWATCH, pilots must include:
a. the aircraft radio call-sign;
b. place of arrival or point from which SARWATCH services are no
longer required;
c. the words“CANCELSARWATCH”;and
d. when communicating with a unit other than that nominated,the
name of the ATS unit to which the report shall be relayed.
52.1.3 SARWATCH may be cancelled in combination with a pilot report of
changing to the CTAF, or in the circuit area, or after landing.
It does not mention the communication tool in order to provide that flexibility to the operator. I have used the good old telephone to Brizzie briefing after landing and before 'Ops Normal' expiry many a time. Or if you are taking off in the not too distant future you may wish to:
Pilots of other than IFR RPT flights, wishing to extend the SARWATCH for the period of landing and subsequent take-off, may nominate a SARTIME for departure when arriving at an aerodrome where radio or ground communication cannot reasonably be as- sured. SAR alerting action will be initiated if a taxiing or departure report is not received by the nominated SARTIME.
Easy answer (the above really is just padding on top of Captain Nomads post), you can be IFR and out of direct comms with ATC. It is impractical and a little naive to expect to be in direct contact all of the time in Australia. I couldn't be in direct contact all the time in the old P3 when the HF was busted, and we could still charge on outside VHF range (IFR no-comm was slightly different), the coastwatch boys can do the same thing.
Happy actual hours!
Last edited by Rogan82; 20th Jul 2013 at 14:24.
