MPL

[FailureToFly]

Hi All,

I'm contemplating a career change and heard about various MPL courses. As I understand it each MPL provider has a partner airline which provides line training and employment. I'm interested to know what existing pilots think of the program compared to the traditional pathway (PPL-CPL-ATPL) in terms of opportunity on completion? I'm also not sure how widespread recognition of the licence is. Any and all information helps!

[Checkboard]

You complete a short course with 80 hours flying (and a bunch of simulator).

You are required to undergo a partner airline's multi-crew type rating course.

On completion of your line check, you are awarded a Multi-crew Pilot Licence, with the type endorsement you undertook.

At that point you may stay, leave or fly for any other operator - provided that you only fly multi-crew and only on a type on which you are endorsed. (i.e. you can apply for a job at another airline, but you have to complete a type rating on their aircraft, if they fly a different type - the same as any other license holder.)

Once you have completed 1500 hours, you may convert the license to a regular ATPL - exactly the same licence as any other ATPL holder. (i.e. If you now wish to fly single pilot under 5700kg, you would have to pass a BFR on under 5700kg etc).

[Mach E Avelli]

If you do embark on the MPL, get it in writing - and vetted by a lawyer to ensure that it is binding - that the host airline will guarantee you a flying job once you are qualified. If the course provider is unable to produce that, take the traditional route.

[smiling monkey]

Maybe you can ask this guy. He's an A320 MPL holder that has just done (or is doing) the ATPL conversion seeking to switch airlines.

http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...ated-f-os.html

[LeadSled]

At that point you may stay, leave or fly for any other operator - provided that you only fly multi-crew and only on a type on which you are endorsed

Checkboard,
Are you absolutely certain of that statement, if so, could you please provide a reference.

If that is what CASA is doing/allowing, it is contrary to ICAO Annex 1, and the original intent of the MPL, that it was not transferable.

I would also be very careful about whether "doing a BFR" is all you need to go fly lighties --- unless you already have a PPL. You cannot fly as pilot in command on an MPL --- unless CASA has done something weird here, as well.

Finally, 6 is not representative of the amount of MPL training in AU, as most of it is being done by/for overseas airlines.

[27/09]

Maybe you can ask this guy. He's an A320 MPL holder that has just done (or is doing) the ATPL conversion seeking to switch airlines.

http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...ated-f-os.html

Some questions.

Can and MPL holder gain the experience to actually hold an ATPL in Oz? ICUS not withstanding, isn't there a P in C component over and above that gained in the MPL. There certainly is this side of the ditch.

If as has been quoted that a MPL holder is a FO for life, what's the point of them getting an ATPL?

Lastly I thought the MPL was airline specific and not transferable.

[Mach E Avelli]

Now don't take my word for this, because anything that CASA does can be quite, shall we just say, 'unique'. HOWEVER, even for CASA, the notion that a pilot could do all the necessary to obtain a MPL only to be sentenced to the term of his/her natural working life in the F/O seat beggars belief. I say that's bullsh!t. Someday CASA will be dragged kicking and screaming to ICAO-harmonised licencing standards. The MPL is part of that evolution.

The MPL is intended to create airline pilots. Including, eventually, airline captains. So, do your research, get undertakings in writing (including details of the host airline's ICUS plans for the future) before you spend your money. If the MPL path suits your career aspirations, training needs and budget, do it.

Ignore the old argument about whether a few years of hard yards flying a VFR single out of Bumfcuknowhere would make you a better captain. You could also argue that a few space missions would make all of us better pilots, just like 10 years before the mast on windjammers would make us better sailors. Nice sentiments, but not relevant. The times they are a changin'.

[FailureToFly]

I saw that website too and thought it was in reference to the first batch of MPL-holder wannabes only. Also think it was a number of years ago.

Your warning about conversion to a full (unfrozen) ATPL is noted though two of the FTO's I've found (I hope I'm using the right terminology here) that offer MPL state you convert to ATPL upon completion of the 1500 hours flight time with the partner airline.

However, those FTO's were in the U.A.E and UK. Perhaps CASA thinks different?

[FailureToFly]

First of all much thanks for all your input.

From what you've all said my big concern is that despite being able to convert to a full ATPL it seems I would be forever trapped in the right-hand seat... not a thrilling thought... and unable to transfer across airlines. Do you think the aviation authorities under which I would hope to fly would answer this question directly? i.e. CASA? 27/09's reply was slightly too technical for me.

Thanks smiling_monkey for the contact- I'll be sure to mine them for info.

A new question I have relates to the traditional route of gaining the ATPL. Presume I knock out all the licences, ratings and endorsements: is there always a 5-10 year hold-up as you acquire hours enough to be considered by a reputable airline? If so, this seems to be a real positive for the MPL...?

[anthos92]

Just out of curiosity does anyone know what the going rate is for members paying to get into these MPL courses? I heard the Arabia guys were paying US$150K to come over to AAPA and do the course. Is this the average over here as well?

[training wheels]

is there always a 5-10 year hold-up as you acquire hours enough to be considered by a reputable airline?

Well, you do the maths. Jetstar requires 1500 hours and an ATPL before they'll look at your application. VA, although requiring slightly less, but judging by those who have posted here on PPRuNe, those getting interviews have in advance of 3000 hours. If you're lucky enough to get a job soon after getting your CPL, and you average say, 500 hours a year then you're looking at at least 3 years to 6 years in GA gaining valuable experience. If you refer to that as a 'hold-up', then I'd seriously be looking for a different profession if I were you.

[Checkboard]

Checkboard,
Are you absolutely certain of that statement, if so, could you please provide a reference.

If that is what CASA is doing/allowing,

I wouldn't have the foggiest what CASA is doing, to be honest.

Conversion to ATPL at 1500 hours is what happens in Europe (but then, the pilot in command requirement here is covered by the FO's all logging ICUS on every sector they are PF. The company then provides a letter to the CAA which says "Yep - that's true hours, all right" - which gets around the requirement for the Captain to countersign each ICUS flight )

As there is very little GA in Europe it's done that way because 90% of the pilots join with a bare CPL and 200 hours and never fly anything other than an airliner ever again. (i.e. they never gain actual Pilot in Command time, until they are in command of an airliner.)