General Aviation Meeting
Wow!
and the pommie CAA is EASA compliant....so where do our fun police get their current direction?
With the current regs on "Big Aircraft" warbirds, I am very worried my son will be forced away from his apprenticeship.
and the pommie CAA is EASA compliant....so where do our fun police get their current direction?With the current regs on "Big Aircraft" warbirds, I am very worried my son will be forced away from his apprenticeship.
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Unintelligible legislation from CASA
601, if you hadn't already done it I, too was going to draw attention to the very same piece of poor English in the extreme - i.e. the very latest CAO part 48. They must realise how poorly written it is because they have produced a 35 page document to "explain" how we should interpret the rot!
Here are the first few statements
PART 1 GENERAL
1 Name of instrument
This instrument is the Civil Aviation Order 48.1 Instrument 2013.
2 Commencement
2.1 This instrument commences on 30 April 2013.
2.2 Despite paragraph 2.1, the provisions of this instrument take effect for an AOC holder and an FCM in accordance with subsection 4.
3 Repeals
3.1 On 30 April 2016, each of the following Civil Aviation Orders (CAOs) is repealed, namely CAO 48.0, CAO 48.1, CAO 48.2, CAO 48.3 and CAO 48.4.
3.2 To avoid doubt, on 30 April 2016, each of the following Civil Aviation Amendment Orders (CAAOs) is repealed, namely CAAO (No. R47) 2004, CAAO (No. R48) 2004, CAAO (No. R49) 2004, CAAO (No. R50) 2004 and CAAO (No. R51) 2004.
3.3 To avoid doubt, on 30 April 2016, each CAO mentioned in paragraph 3.1, and each CAAO mentioned in paragraph 3.2, as continued in force by subregulation 335 (2) of CAR 1988 as if it had been made on 4 December 2013 under regulation 210A of CAR 1988, is repealed.
Here are the first few statements
PART 1 GENERAL
1 Name of instrument
This instrument is the Civil Aviation Order 48.1 Instrument 2013.
2 Commencement
2.1 This instrument commences on 30 April 2013.
2.2 Despite paragraph 2.1, the provisions of this instrument take effect for an AOC holder and an FCM in accordance with subsection 4.
3 Repeals
3.1 On 30 April 2016, each of the following Civil Aviation Orders (CAOs) is repealed, namely CAO 48.0, CAO 48.1, CAO 48.2, CAO 48.3 and CAO 48.4.
3.2 To avoid doubt, on 30 April 2016, each of the following Civil Aviation Amendment Orders (CAAOs) is repealed, namely CAAO (No. R47) 2004, CAAO (No. R48) 2004, CAAO (No. R49) 2004, CAAO (No. R50) 2004 and CAAO (No. R51) 2004.
3.3 To avoid doubt, on 30 April 2016, each CAO mentioned in paragraph 3.1, and each CAAO mentioned in paragraph 3.2, as continued in force by subregulation 335 (2) of CAR 1988 as if it had been made on 4 December 2013 under regulation 210A of CAR 1988, is repealed.
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casa engrish please!!!
The following thread has a collection of these - You might like to add your thoughts.
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...ml#post7747444
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...ml#post7747444
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I have heard that it was a very poor showing by the regulator. Many people very disappointed and much anger and disbelief.
This was from a passive, calm and rational observer. I hate to think what the highly motivated folk thought.
I wish I could have been there. But kind of glad I wasn't....I am not good at tolerating some things.
This was from a passive, calm and rational observer. I hate to think what the highly motivated folk thought.
I wish I could have been there. But kind of glad I wasn't....I am not good at tolerating some things.
Folks,
I believe it is reasonable to say that CASA made a fool of themselves in front of Senator Ian McDonald, who will, without doubt be discussing the matter with fellow Senators and MHRs, particularly the LNP variety.
Tootle pip!!
I believe it is reasonable to say that CASA made a fool of themselves in front of Senator Ian McDonald, who will, without doubt be discussing the matter with fellow Senators and MHRs, particularly the LNP variety.
Tootle pip!!
Spoutings...
Heard that the Dear Leader...you know the one that cant abide "unwarranted demagogy, criticisms and etc", was there to defend the indefensible with a quality BS spray. Cut short by request, was it ?
Would be great to hear some good news, outcomes and anything about changes that the Maint Orgs require/demand.... to stay sane ...and in business.
In another post Thorny made the point of how we are at this sorry impasse because we have just let the bs bureaucrats run off at the mouth and pen rotten regs without major fightbacks.
I know, I know... its very difficult when folk are busy with the business of trying to stay in business. And any upsetting of the CASA night soil cart can bring "repercussions", as we know. Heads down and all that.
After 25 + years and $250+ mil. we are still drowning in it.
The spinning "dervishes" and the BS continues.....
Would be great to hear some good news, outcomes and anything about changes that the Maint Orgs require/demand.... to stay sane ...and in business.
In another post Thorny made the point of how we are at this sorry impasse because we have just let the bs bureaucrats run off at the mouth and pen rotten regs without major fightbacks.
I know, I know... its very difficult when folk are busy with the business of trying to stay in business. And any upsetting of the CASA night soil cart can bring "repercussions", as we know. Heads down and all that.
After 25 + years and $250+ mil. we are still drowning in it.
The spinning "dervishes" and the BS continues.....
Hullo hullo ??
Did anyone go to this meeting ?? Someone ? Anyone?
What was discussed,? what were the issues?
Any outcomes??
I'm sure many folk that lodge their flying machine in workshops (approved, of course) would dearly like to know.
Should I email the Skull?
What was discussed,? what were the issues?
Any outcomes??
I'm sure many folk that lodge their flying machine in workshops (approved, of course) would dearly like to know.
Should I email the Skull?
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I think most people respect Chatham House Rules.
But a friend of mine summed it up thus:
Another friend said:
Any outcomes??? I doubt it unless Senator Macdonald, Warren Truss and the Coalition seriously take up the issue. But at least it is a step. Congratulations to Ken & AMROBA.
And credit to John McCormick for actually showing up rather than sending some lackey along. Hopefully some message gets across.
But a friend of mine summed it up thus:
We witnessed the most extraordinary performance from McCormick who firstly showed up early, which shut down people who were sharing their experiences, and his performance treated over 80 small business representatives with no respect.
He started by bullying and talking over the top of people so that they would not talk but Ken Cannane, who was the MC, got people to speak.
Even Senator Ian McDonald, who opened the meeting, told McCormick to shut up and listen to what the industry had to say.
He scoffed at virtually every issue that was raised.
He was completely OTT in his comments on who had to transition to Part 145 – he got it completely wrong telling that it only applied to high capacity (>36 seat) aircraft when in fact it applies to any aircraft or aeronautical product that may be fitted to an aircraft performing RPT operations.
When the complaints issue was raised he virtually stated it was the first he had heard of it until attendees stated they had sent the complaints to him.
He started by bullying and talking over the top of people so that they would not talk but Ken Cannane, who was the MC, got people to speak.
Even Senator Ian McDonald, who opened the meeting, told McCormick to shut up and listen to what the industry had to say.
He scoffed at virtually every issue that was raised.
He was completely OTT in his comments on who had to transition to Part 145 – he got it completely wrong telling that it only applied to high capacity (>36 seat) aircraft when in fact it applies to any aircraft or aeronautical product that may be fitted to an aircraft performing RPT operations.
When the complaints issue was raised he virtually stated it was the first he had heard of it until attendees stated they had sent the complaints to him.
The meeting closed by highlighting the actual conduct of CASA FOIs and AWIs is completely at odds with what McCormick believes, the high level of distrust, the lack of confidence by industry in CASA and an apparent total lack of respect by many CASA officers towards industry, in particular the huge financial investment they have tied up and the jobs they provide to many dedicated people who do their very best every day.
And credit to John McCormick for actually showing up rather than sending some lackey along. Hopefully some message gets across.
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So did Mc Comical have someone in a trench coat, wearing ray bans
down the back taking notes and sly pic's of complainants for future consideration?
It would appear exactly what we feared.
From the top down CAsA believes it has unquestionable power.
down the back taking notes and sly pic's of complainants for future consideration?
It would appear exactly what we feared.
From the top down CAsA believes it has unquestionable power.
- That CAsA has a complete monopoly on knowledge and competence in all things "aviation".
- That it is completely unaccountable to anyone...the parliament, therefore the "people"and therefore the representatives of the people.
- That it can prejudice,manipulate and subvert the law of the land.
- That in no way shape or form should they consider or be required to consider the opinions of those that in their eyes are mere cretin criminals they havnt caught yet. Yet these "Criminals" are the ones who actually produce something, employ people both directly and indirectly and contribute to the economy.
Last edited by thorn bird; 27th Apr 2013 at 05:44.
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Well Hiway, if your quotes are accurate how about pointing to where they were drawn from?
Thornbird, speculation like yours achieves nothing but generating more.
As for Chatham house rules, I dont believe anyone suggested they were in place for the second part of the meeting. Interesting that there has been no REAL report on what was said. Could it be that some of what the Skull said shot down some malcontents?
Thornbird, speculation like yours achieves nothing but generating more.
As for Chatham house rules, I dont believe anyone suggested they were in place for the second part of the meeting. Interesting that there has been no REAL report on what was said. Could it be that some of what the Skull said shot down some malcontents?
But what is the impediment to someone simply quoting who said what to whom and when during the meeting? 
It wasn't the National Security Committee, and everyone's entitled to know what elected people and public officials say about what the rules currently require and may require in future.
It wasn't the National Security Committee, and everyone's entitled to know what elected people and public officials say about what the rules currently require and may require in future.
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I've got notes here, but nobody has given me permision to reproduce them.
I think any impediment may have something to do with payback if a visitor log was signed, or they were recognised by the incumbent cororate psycopath or his small '(m)' mates.
PM me if you want the name of a Lawyer who was present. But you already know that don't you?
Frank Arouet (C)
I think any impediment may have something to do with payback if a visitor log was signed, or they were recognised by the incumbent cororate psycopath or his small '(m)' mates.
PM me if you want the name of a Lawyer who was present. But you already know that don't you?
Frank Arouet (C)
some quote....!
As given " The meeting closed by highlighting the actual conduct of F0Is and SAWIs is at odds with what McCormick believes"
If that is the case then McCormick has either altzheimers and /or brain damage causing memory loss, or is exhibiting sociopathic bully tendencies which is denial by bullsh*t and bluster of any valid criticism.
HE KNOWS how some of his employees entertain bastardry as a work qualification and useable ethic. And there are plenty of folk out there who can prove the case. As much the poorer JQ can attest in spades.
"He scoffed at virtually every issue raised.." Says it all really.
Sounds like a real leader for industry...#$!!@$&!!
FFS. There really is no hope for the place.
Or the GA industry.
Forget the pollies..not worth a cracker. Those that are there just want to stay and keep flinging yr dollars around and those that aren't there yet want to be there to be those that are flinging yr money around. See Sept 14.
GA? Aviation? What the...!!!
Oz skies are unsafe skies...
If that is the case then McCormick has either altzheimers and /or brain damage causing memory loss, or is exhibiting sociopathic bully tendencies which is denial by bullsh*t and bluster of any valid criticism.
HE KNOWS how some of his employees entertain bastardry as a work qualification and useable ethic. And there are plenty of folk out there who can prove the case. As much the poorer JQ can attest in spades.
"He scoffed at virtually every issue raised.."
Says it all really.Sounds like a real leader for industry...#$!!@$&!!
FFS. There really is no hope for the place.
Or the GA industry.
Forget the pollies..not worth a cracker. Those that are there just want to stay and keep flinging yr dollars around and those that aren't there yet want to be there to be those that are flinging yr money around. See Sept 14.
GA? Aviation? What the...!!!
Oz skies are unsafe skies...
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Chatham house rules my spotted arse. Why is a public meeting about public aviation regulations, issues and even safety now classed as 'top secret'?
Did the Skull bring with him his friend from CAsA HR, the ex ASIO guy, to run background checks on all attendees as well as profile them?
And why wouldn't he talk to people like ****e? He has done it with the Senators, other parts of industry, his executive management team, fellow line pilots in the old days, and of course who could forget the 49ers where he rose from the ashes to be promoted for his robust work in 'bullying' other pilots!
I couldn't attend as I was on the opposite side of the country, but I would have loved to have seen the angry man starting to steam up slowly. It doesn't take much really, and it certainly must have hurt for him to have mingled with the clay of the earth, common folk, peasants who dont all have a history of flying 747's (as if that is what makes you a real man anyway), those who don't swap spit with Ministers or grab their ankles for ICAO! Yes what an experience for the angry man!
Did the Skull bring with him his friend from CAsA HR, the ex ASIO guy, to run background checks on all attendees as well as profile them?
And why wouldn't he talk to people like ****e? He has done it with the Senators, other parts of industry, his executive management team, fellow line pilots in the old days, and of course who could forget the 49ers where he rose from the ashes to be promoted for his robust work in 'bullying' other pilots!
I couldn't attend as I was on the opposite side of the country, but I would have loved to have seen the angry man starting to steam up slowly. It doesn't take much really, and it certainly must have hurt for him to have mingled with the clay of the earth, common folk, peasants who dont all have a history of flying 747's (as if that is what makes you a real man anyway), those who don't swap spit with Ministers or grab their ankles for ICAO! Yes what an experience for the angry man!
Last edited by my oleo is extended; 27th Apr 2013 at 11:11.
Socket, by definition, if people feel angry enough to organise and attend a public meeting then there is obviously some evidence of CASA misdeeds somewhere.
People don't organise and expend time and money on such activities without good reason.
People don't organise and expend time and money on such activities without good reason.
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FAA Audit Finding AIR/01
PAIN Observation
For your consideration, did the AMROBA meeting conclude that the FAA/ICAO audit findings had been acquitted?
Appendix 3-5-1
P1. a.k.a. P1.
Last edited by PAIN_NET; 28th Apr 2013 at 00:42.
This summation says it all, really...
"When the Civil Aviation Authority was created in 1988, one of its primary functions was to provide safety regulations by paragraph 9(1)(c) of the Act that states:
by means that include the following:
(c) developing and promulgating appropriate, clear and concise aviation safety standards;
25 years later this has been a total failure. There are no ‘appropriate, clear and concise safety standards” promulgated by CASA. This original function was misunderstood when CAA/CASA decided, in 1991, to “two-tier” the aviation regulatory system – a total failure as “appropriate, clear and concise aviation safety standards” are now subject to the criminal code and become intelligible. "
I guess by virtue of my 'vocation' in life, (I love aviating) I have the potential to become a 'hardened criminal'....
Not cheers
"When the Civil Aviation Authority was created in 1988, one of its primary functions was to provide safety regulations by paragraph 9(1)(c) of the Act that states:
by means that include the following:
(c) developing and promulgating appropriate, clear and concise aviation safety standards;
25 years later this has been a total failure. There are no ‘appropriate, clear and concise safety standards” promulgated by CASA. This original function was misunderstood when CAA/CASA decided, in 1991, to “two-tier” the aviation regulatory system – a total failure as “appropriate, clear and concise aviation safety standards” are now subject to the criminal code and become intelligible. "
I guess by virtue of my 'vocation' in life, (I love aviating) I have the potential to become a 'hardened criminal'....
Not cheers