Tour of Duty Hours
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Tour of Duty Hours
Hi Everyone,
Although I'm a first time poster, I am a long term reader of your forums, and I've enjoyed the "spirited" conversations of these pages covering a wide range of subjects for a while now.
I'm just about ready for my CPL flight test and I have been told to anticipate the usual hour building/consolidation period that is set to follow, and I am prepared to do this - on a part-time basis if I must....at this stage I will happy to go flying without having to pay for it.
I am after some clarification or your opinions on CPL tour of duty hours. I am quite familiar with CAO 48 (as you can imagine), but I am wondering whether hours worked in a second or third job - possibly night shift work will have any bearing on tour of duty hours and what I can or can't do on a daily or weekly basis.
Thanks in advance
M
Although I'm a first time poster, I am a long term reader of your forums, and I've enjoyed the "spirited" conversations of these pages covering a wide range of subjects for a while now.
I'm just about ready for my CPL flight test and I have been told to anticipate the usual hour building/consolidation period that is set to follow, and I am prepared to do this - on a part-time basis if I must....at this stage I will happy to go flying without having to pay for it.
I am after some clarification or your opinions on CPL tour of duty hours. I am quite familiar with CAO 48 (as you can imagine), but I am wondering whether hours worked in a second or third job - possibly night shift work will have any bearing on tour of duty hours and what I can or can't do on a daily or weekly basis.
Thanks in advance
M
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None whatsoever, BUT you have a responsibility to yourself your employer and passengers to be adequately rested-not fatigued, not hungry etc.
I thought you said you were familiar with CAO 48? It says that in quite clear and concise fashion. Maybe you need to study a bit more for the CPL test.
I thought you said you were familiar with CAO 48? It says that in quite clear and concise fashion. Maybe you need to study a bit more for the CPL test.
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Straight from CAO 48.0
"tour of duty means the period between the time a flight crew member
commences any duties associated with his or her employment prior to making
a flight or series of flights until he or she is finally relieved of all such duties
after the termination of such flight or series of flights and includes reserve time
at the airport."
My interpretation of that is your second job won't count, unless it involves flying too.
As Ret already said, if the second job causes you to become fatigued to the point that you select gear down, but miss the fact that the pump is shagged and the gear hasn't moved an inch, your unfit for duty even though its technically legal.
"tour of duty means the period between the time a flight crew member
commences any duties associated with his or her employment prior to making
a flight or series of flights until he or she is finally relieved of all such duties
after the termination of such flight or series of flights and includes reserve time
at the airport."
My interpretation of that is your second job won't count, unless it involves flying too.
As Ret already said, if the second job causes you to become fatigued to the point that you select gear down, but miss the fact that the pump is shagged and the gear hasn't moved an inch, your unfit for duty even though its technically legal.
Last edited by NIK320; 3rd Apr 2013 at 10:53.
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Correct Niko. But as previously stated don't do a pooffer valve or worse still fly tired.
Actually I don't think many operators would let this happen anyway, then again you did say you were willing to work for free, so you may be setting yourself up. Be careful.
Actually I don't think many operators would let this happen anyway, then again you did say you were willing to work for free, so you may be setting yourself up. Be careful.
The drop zone I used to fly at was more than happy to let it happen. I was more likely to wipe myself out on the drive home though, but a lot wiser now.
Many do stupid thing chasing hours early in the career, self included.
Sorta things like flying for free...
Many do stupid thing chasing hours early in the career, self included.
Sorta things like flying for free...
Whether you're paying or not getting paid, you still need to hold another job to pay the bills and that's where the problem lies.
Even $20/load dropping meat bombs gets you $150 odd on a Sat/Sun.
Even $20/load dropping meat bombs gets you $150 odd on a Sat/Sun.
Be very careful with this. At my last job we often worked the counter selling tickets/Merchandise, CASA made a point of this counting towards our duty hours, we didn't fly, we didn't go near an aircraft but it was the same company so it counted and whilst they could not enforce hours worked outside in a complete seperate job they were quick to point out, as others here have, that if you turn up to work fatigued because of it and have an accident you're going to be in the pooper!!
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Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate your opinions.
Funny how there are so many rules, regulations and orders dictating how much we can and can't do officially, but in the end it's up to us alone to determine if we are capable of performing to a safe standard. Being too sick, tired or hungry to do the job is surely very subjective and opinions on how "fit" we are will differ between everyone.
If there is an incident, can officials conclude that a pilot is fatigued or sick if he or she claims they weren't?
By the way Craven, Solo was right, I didn't mean to say that I was willing to fly for free, but I realize that as a S/E VFR pilot with low hours, I'm unlikely to walk into a full time well paid job and I will have to make other arrangements to get some hours in the log book. If this means working night shifts and doing some casual/part time flying hours on my days off, so be it.
PS If anyone does here of a full time job for a S/E VFR pilot with low hours.... let me know. I am willing to relocate.
Funny how there are so many rules, regulations and orders dictating how much we can and can't do officially, but in the end it's up to us alone to determine if we are capable of performing to a safe standard. Being too sick, tired or hungry to do the job is surely very subjective and opinions on how "fit" we are will differ between everyone.
If there is an incident, can officials conclude that a pilot is fatigued or sick if he or she claims they weren't?
By the way Craven, Solo was right, I didn't mean to say that I was willing to fly for free, but I realize that as a S/E VFR pilot with low hours, I'm unlikely to walk into a full time well paid job and I will have to make other arrangements to get some hours in the log book. If this means working night shifts and doing some casual/part time flying hours on my days off, so be it.
PS If anyone does here of a full time job for a S/E VFR pilot with low hours.... let me know. I am willing to relocate.
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Whilst working as a Instructor full time I also held a second job, averaged 80hrs week of work Monday - Sunday.
Needed to do it to pay the bills. Yes I was paid the award wage. But that means nothing when my students working at McDonald's where earning $10,000 more a year than myself.
It is perfectly legal to work a second job outside aviation and does not effect your duty limitations.
Welcome to aviation
Needed to do it to pay the bills. Yes I was paid the award wage. But that means nothing when my students working at McDonald's where earning $10,000 more a year than myself.
It is perfectly legal to work a second job outside aviation and does not effect your duty limitations.
Welcome to aviation
