Request 10 second delay..???
Folks ( And Jack please note)
A brief look at AIP Gen 3.4, page 51 may be enlightening to some of you as to the formal situation ---- and any thing to do with takeoff and landing clearances ( and clearances in general) should be very formal.
(1) If you need time on the runway, the call is" (callsign), request lineup (X seconds)", X denoting the time required on the runway.
Jack, if the operation requires it --- and this is up to the pilot in command, it is quite correct to nominate the time needed, but the local phraseology needs smartening up.
(2) If you have called ready at the holding point, a clearance for takeoff can, but does not require a rolling takeoff, but the time lined up must be minimal.
(3) If the tower requires a rolling takeoff , the clearance to the aircraft at the holding point will be " (Call sign) cleared for immediate takeoff".
If you want to let the tower know you can do a rolling takeoff, you can say '(Call sign) ready immediate" as you approach or are at the holding point.
In this area, the Australian AIP and Australian practice is generally consistent with ICAO Doc. 9432 (and Doc. 4444 and Annex X), which is also referred to in the AIP as the source of phraseologies not contained in the Australian AIP.
Based on what is reported here, both the flying school CFI and instructors, and the tower staff, need a standards refresher.
The above fundamental phraseology is nothing new, indeed it has remained unchanged for at least as long as I have been flying, which is over 50 years.
Tootle pip!!
A brief look at AIP Gen 3.4, page 51 may be enlightening to some of you as to the formal situation ---- and any thing to do with takeoff and landing clearances ( and clearances in general) should be very formal.
(1) If you need time on the runway, the call is" (callsign), request lineup (X seconds)", X denoting the time required on the runway.
Jack, if the operation requires it --- and this is up to the pilot in command, it is quite correct to nominate the time needed, but the local phraseology needs smartening up.
(2) If you have called ready at the holding point, a clearance for takeoff can, but does not require a rolling takeoff, but the time lined up must be minimal.
(3) If the tower requires a rolling takeoff , the clearance to the aircraft at the holding point will be " (Call sign) cleared for immediate takeoff".
If you want to let the tower know you can do a rolling takeoff, you can say '(Call sign) ready immediate" as you approach or are at the holding point.
In this area, the Australian AIP and Australian practice is generally consistent with ICAO Doc. 9432 (and Doc. 4444 and Annex X), which is also referred to in the AIP as the source of phraseologies not contained in the Australian AIP.
Based on what is reported here, both the flying school CFI and instructors, and the tower staff, need a standards refresher.
The above fundamental phraseology is nothing new, indeed it has remained unchanged for at least as long as I have been flying, which is over 50 years.
Tootle pip!!
Last edited by LeadSled; 23rd Mar 2013 at 07:18.
Another non standard call that has crept in, pending clearance springs to mind. Someone heard someone say it and thought it was cool. Now every man and his cessna is saying it.
Pretty sure there was a thread regarding this on here a lil while ago.
Pretty sure there was a thread regarding this on here a lil while ago.
It used to specify "rolling start" in the GAAP section of AIP. Disappeared when "D" came along (giant leap forward!) and the whole chapter was deleted.
Not just short fields wanting the 10 seconds at AF anymore - no real problem, just means more waiting when it's a bit tight.
Not just short fields wanting the 10 seconds at AF anymore - no real problem, just means more waiting when it's a bit tight.
Originally Posted by Ledsled
If you need time on the runway, the call is" (callsign), request lineup (X seconds)", X denoting the time required on the runway.
AIP says: REQUEST LINE-UP [REQUIRE (required number of seconds delay in lined-up position before departure) SECONDS ON RUNWAY]
Originally Posted by Ledsled
If you want to let the tower know you can do a rolling takeoff, you can say '(Call sign) ready immediate" as you approach or are at the holding point.
Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 23rd Mar 2013 at 14:26.
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Come on............lead, dood, the only time I've asked for a 10 second delay (and I have) is when I've ****** up & haven't latched a shoulder harness or door.
You blokes whinge when you get sent round cos some clown requests a 10 second delay.
Sit quietly and count 1 banana, 2 banana etc. 10 seconds is a friggin' long time in ATC land. If your brutha pilot requests a 10 second delay, don't whinge
You blokes whinge when you get sent round cos some clown requests a 10 second delay.
Sit quietly and count 1 banana, 2 banana etc. 10 seconds is a friggin' long time in ATC land. If your brutha pilot requests a 10 second delay, don't whinge
Thread Starter
Not debating that if time is required for checks, the call can be used.
Just questioning why after years (and I've been operating at AF for over fifteen of them now) of every other operator being able to conduct SFTO without needing to requst time for what is essentially a three second operation, we are suddenly hearing this request on almost every second departure (it would seem).
Even flying turboprops (that do require time to spool up) out of short strips, I've yet to hear this call made in the real world for this purpose.
Just questioning why after years (and I've been operating at AF for over fifteen of them now) of every other operator being able to conduct SFTO without needing to requst time for what is essentially a three second operation, we are suddenly hearing this request on almost every second departure (it would seem).
Even flying turboprops (that do require time to spool up) out of short strips, I've yet to hear this call made in the real world for this purpose.
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Amazing awhole thread about nothing, thanks Ozzie Mossie for injecting some sanity into this.
When all is said and done isnt the object of the exercise to communicate clearly to the talking traffic lights your intentions without resorting to Swahili.
When all is said and done isnt the object of the exercise to communicate clearly to the talking traffic lights your intentions without resorting to Swahili.
Bloggs,
Please explain what is different about what I said, and what the AIP says, and what is so wrong about what I said ---said in plain language, so even you can understand.
Do you understand that the phrases in the AIP are not the only phrases that may be used, as is now recognized in Australia, as part of ICAO compliance.
As to "ready immediate", I guess this is just a matter of your limited experience and knowledge of the relevant ICAO Docs., for which I have provided a reference, and related advisory material --- particularly the recommendations for plain language communications, and commons sense use by experienced pilots.
Precisely the point made in the ICAO docs.
Tootle pip!!
Please explain what is different about what I said, and what the AIP says, and what is so wrong about what I said ---said in plain language, so even you can understand.
Do you understand that the phrases in the AIP are not the only phrases that may be used, as is now recognized in Australia, as part of ICAO compliance.
As to "ready immediate", I guess this is just a matter of your limited experience and knowledge of the relevant ICAO Docs., for which I have provided a reference, and related advisory material --- particularly the recommendations for plain language communications, and commons sense use by experienced pilots.
When all is said and done isn't the object of the exercise to communicate clearly to the talking traffic lights your intentions without resorting to Swahili.
Tootle pip!!
Last edited by LeadSled; 24th Mar 2013 at 02:36.
Originally Posted by Ledsled
Please explain what is different about what I said, and what the AIP says, and what is so wrong about what I said
Originally Posted by Ledsled
As to "ready immediate", I guess this is just a matter of your limited experience and knowledge of the relevant ICAO Docs., for which I have provided a reference
When all is said and done isnt the object of the exercise to communicate clearly to the talking traffic lights your intentions without resorting to Swahili.
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Are you ready for immediate T/O is quite often used by controllers at YPJT clearly seeking info to help in separation when on only 1 runway.
Part of the clear and concise communication construct, in the 50 years I have held a license I must confess this is the silliest discussion I have witnessed.
Part of the clear and concise communication construct, in the 50 years I have held a license I must confess this is the silliest discussion I have witnessed.
