Class 1 Medical - Audio
Thread Starter
Class 1 Medical - Audio
Hi all,
Just after a bit of advice from anyone who's had any dramas with the audiometry part of their medical and what hoops you had to jump through to resolve them.
A bit of background: I've been flying for 30 years or so, mainly military but some civil, and have had issues with audiometry over the years but have generally managed to squeak through with a pass.
Operationally it's never been a problem, and apart from cranking the volume on radios when required I'm fine doing the job.
I'm booked in for a specialist appointment and hoping they will just say 'you're fine, go forth and aviate', but am also worried about what'll happen if they don't.
For anyone who's been down this path, and I imagine there are quite a few of us with deterioration after years of engine noise and a natural decline in hearing ability, what have you had to do? Has it been relatively straightforward, or not?
Thanks in advance for your input, and please, not too many cracks about ear trumpets!
Just after a bit of advice from anyone who's had any dramas with the audiometry part of their medical and what hoops you had to jump through to resolve them.
A bit of background: I've been flying for 30 years or so, mainly military but some civil, and have had issues with audiometry over the years but have generally managed to squeak through with a pass.
Operationally it's never been a problem, and apart from cranking the volume on radios when required I'm fine doing the job.
I'm booked in for a specialist appointment and hoping they will just say 'you're fine, go forth and aviate', but am also worried about what'll happen if they don't.
For anyone who's been down this path, and I imagine there are quite a few of us with deterioration after years of engine noise and a natural decline in hearing ability, what have you had to do? Has it been relatively straightforward, or not?
Thanks in advance for your input, and please, not too many cracks about ear trumpets!
Is it general loss of hearing or specific frequencies?
I have hearing loss in my right ear but only in the higher frequencies, CASA required I get an audiologist report showing I could still meet the requirements stipulated by CASA, you have to meet a standard on a range of frequencies, luckily my loss is at a range not required by CASA.
CASA have pulled the DAME handbook, so I had a gander at the ICAO handbook (NOTE I am not a DAME and the following is my own interpretation, obviously your DAME is the best informed)
Don't know if that helps, but if they follow the ICAO then there should be ways for further testing for your specific case.
I have hearing loss in my right ear but only in the higher frequencies, CASA required I get an audiologist report showing I could still meet the requirements stipulated by CASA, you have to meet a standard on a range of frequencies, luckily my loss is at a range not required by CASA.
CASA have pulled the DAME handbook, so I had a gander at the ICAO handbook (NOTE I am not a DAME and the following is my own interpretation, obviously your DAME is the best informed)
6.3 Class 1 Medical Assessment:
….
6.3.4 Hearing requirements
6.3.4.1 The applicant, when tested on a pure-tone audiometer, shall not have a hearing loss, in either ear separately, of
more than 35 dB at any of the frequencies 500, 1 000 or 2 000 Hz, or more than 50 dB at 3 000 Hz.
….
6.3.4 Hearing requirements
6.3.4.1 The applicant, when tested on a pure-tone audiometer, shall not have a hearing loss, in either ear separately, of
more than 35 dB at any of the frequencies 500, 1 000 or 2 000 Hz, or more than 50 dB at 3 000 Hz.
6.5.4.1.1 An applicant with a hearing loss greater than the above may be declared fit provided that the applicant
has normal hearing performance against a background noise that reproduces or simulates that experienced in a typical air
traffic control working environment.
Note 1.— The frequency composition of the background noise is defined only to the extent that the frequency range
600 to 4 800 Hz (speech frequency range) is adequately represented.
Note 2.— In the speech material for discrimination testing, both aviation-relevant phrases and phonetically balanced
words are normally used.
has normal hearing performance against a background noise that reproduces or simulates that experienced in a typical air
traffic control working environment.
Note 1.— The frequency composition of the background noise is defined only to the extent that the frequency range
600 to 4 800 Hz (speech frequency range) is adequately represented.
Note 2.— In the speech material for discrimination testing, both aviation-relevant phrases and phonetically balanced
words are normally used.
6.5.4.1.2 Alternatively, a practical hearing test conducted in an air traffic control environment representative of the one for
which the applicant’s licence and ratings are valid may be used.
which the applicant’s licence and ratings are valid may be used.
Hello arm, it is not as bad as you think, the test seems to handle aging pilots loss of hearing OK but quickly eliminates younger people with actual hearing deficiencies. I have been knocked out on the screening test for a while but the spoken words in a white noise environment is pretty easy for old pilots no matter how bad the screening test seems. Probably after years of picking words out of the HF and other background noises helps. Having said that, it is five years since I did the last one, (since retired) so it may have changed. Good luck with it.
Thread Starter
Thanks very much for your replies.
I don't have the audiogram with me but everything below 1 khz is OK but above that it goes downhill. The test I did that sparked this trip to the specialist was the standard noisy doctor's room thing, so I suppose I'll find out a bit more when I get to the next step.
A practical test in the appropriate ATC environment would certainly be good, as per that ICAO document - makes a lot of sense seeing as that's what it's all based on anyway. I'd rather save the dough seeing the specialist and go straight to that option if CASA would go for it!
I don't have the audiogram with me but everything below 1 khz is OK but above that it goes downhill. The test I did that sparked this trip to the specialist was the standard noisy doctor's room thing, so I suppose I'll find out a bit more when I get to the next step.
A practical test in the appropriate ATC environment would certainly be good, as per that ICAO document - makes a lot of sense seeing as that's what it's all based on anyway. I'd rather save the dough seeing the specialist and go straight to that option if CASA would go for it!
I know someone who has been down this path!
Failed the audiogram, failed the whisper test.
The next hurdle was a circuit in an aeroplane with an ATO. (aka Flight Test!)
Headsets on. 'Can you hear me Bill'?
'Yes'!
(Not sure who needed the headset the most. The student or the ATO!
Medical reissued with no restrictions.
You can go down the Hearing Aid path. But that will be a restriction on your license, same as eye glasses!
Failed the audiogram, failed the whisper test.
The next hurdle was a circuit in an aeroplane with an ATO. (aka Flight Test!)
Headsets on. 'Can you hear me Bill'?
'Yes'!
(Not sure who needed the headset the most. The student or the ATO!
Medical reissued with no restrictions.
You can go down the Hearing Aid path. But that will be a restriction on your license, same as eye glasses!
Thread Starter
Cheers Capt.
I just searched for the DAME Handbook on line and looks like it's there again. This was the relevant bit, which sounds encouraging:
"Say again all after ..."
I just searched for the DAME Handbook on line and looks like it's there again. This was the relevant bit, which sounds encouraging:
Where a supplementary speech audiometry test is required, this can be performed by most audiologists. Results are usually presented as a percentage of words correctly heard at different decibel levels.
If the applicant fails the speech-based hearing test, in some cases an in-flight test may be offered if he/she has a high level of aeronautical experience. Such an operational check will involve evaluation of relevant aspects of the applicant's hearing by a CASA Flying Operations Inspector or an Authorised Testing Officer with test material transmitted from a control tower. Ideally the test should be conducted in the Class of aircraft that is the same as that which the applicant normally operates.
If the applicant fails the speech-based hearing test, in some cases an in-flight test may be offered if he/she has a high level of aeronautical experience. Such an operational check will involve evaluation of relevant aspects of the applicant's hearing by a CASA Flying Operations Inspector or an Authorised Testing Officer with test material transmitted from a control tower. Ideally the test should be conducted in the Class of aircraft that is the same as that which the applicant normally operates.
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I had a mate, who had a technique he swore by:
Book your hearing test on the afternoon of an RDO..
From when you get up until you walk into the office of the audiologist, wear an old (non ANR) headset..
Your ears will be hypersensitive and you will get a better result.
Not sure if its bollocks..
Give it a try?!
Book your hearing test on the afternoon of an RDO..
From when you get up until you walk into the office of the audiologist, wear an old (non ANR) headset..
Your ears will be hypersensitive and you will get a better result.
Not sure if its bollocks..
Give it a try?!
Last edited by mattyj; 22nd Feb 2013 at 06:30.
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Hearing loss - relax!
As a former RAF pilot with noise-induced hearing loss, and also an AME, I have a close and particular interest in all this. As you will know, there is a requirement for periodic audiometry, and you are allowed a 35dB loss in the 500, 1000 and 2000 Hz. bands, and 50dB at the 3000Hz. level. Most pilots develop noise-induced high-tone hearing loss as they grow older, but most cope with it quite well, particularly as most aircraft these days carry an effective hearing aid in the form of the volume control. If the hearing loss exceeds the laid-down limits, this poses two questions. The first is whether there is any disease process on the go that needs attention, and the second is whether any flight safety considerations are involved. For these reasons, a specialist assessment is needed. Although the need for specialist attention may provoke a prompt panic attack, in my experience, the approach is aimed at keeping you flying rather than threatening your licence, and the majority of pilots that I have known who have this problem are still flying, although the CAA may want to keep a closer eye on you in the form of annual audiograms or ongoing specialist assessment.
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My dame has an old machine for testing hearing and you can see him push the button - at that point I click. Shop around for someone with the same type of machine. You don't want extra expense imposed by casa so that a specialist, after charging a few hunge, says you are ok to fly. When flying i just adjust the volume so that the radio drowns out the crickets and their eternal damn chirping.
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Well, that's up to you, although I would have thought that your DAME might have twigged by now that you should actually be sitting with your back to the machine. Anyway, using your technique, I just hope that you don't develop an acoustic neuroma or something equally dire which will quietly progress until it's too late to do anything about it.
Thread Starter
As you are in a position to be quite knowledgeable about this, Nick, do you know why the limits are set as they are? Is it just a historical thing, do you think, set a long time ago and left unchanged because there was no reason to? Seems to me they don't reflect what is really required to do the job safely.
In my case, I haven't experienced any significant difficulties operating in any airspace and getting the job done without fuss, hearing-wise, and the annoying bit is that the only time it becomes an issue is at the medical!
My loss has been investigated a couple of times without any particular causes being identified, and I've been given the go-ahead to fly. Having moved house I'm now seeing a different DAME to the last one, and so the question arises again.
I've contacted CASA to ask if I can just go straight to a flight test and bypass the specialist, as I can't see new evidence being revealed (last one 2009).
In my case, I haven't experienced any significant difficulties operating in any airspace and getting the job done without fuss, hearing-wise, and the annoying bit is that the only time it becomes an issue is at the medical!
My loss has been investigated a couple of times without any particular causes being identified, and I've been given the go-ahead to fly. Having moved house I'm now seeing a different DAME to the last one, and so the question arises again.
I've contacted CASA to ask if I can just go straight to a flight test and bypass the specialist, as I can't see new evidence being revealed (last one 2009).
