F35 Lightning.....
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I seem to remember the ABC dumping s**t on the F111.
Same thing happen when they bought the F-111. It wasn't ready. The Canberra was getting old and Indonesia were getting some whizz-bang russian thing of the day.
So we had the F-4E for a couple of years as fill in.
Last edited by in-cog-nito; 19th Feb 2013 at 01:23.
Good or bad...
..I'm just amazed that so much money is signed away in secret by little Johnnie brown nose, just like the decision to go into Iraq.
Where's the due process?, tendering? any Parliamentry debate or democratic process? WTF??? Any angry taxpayers?? Hullo???
This is the NBN of the skies.!! FFS.
Have a read of the Wiki articles..Loved the bit where probs were solved with the computer stuff during maintenance by shutting down and restarting. That might not be an option for the pilot when the ONE engine craps out at 300 ft. No time to reboot the whole system due to gravity.
I'm sure the Lockheed shareholders wont mind if we prang a few (dozen), good for business at the latest price of $180Mil, due cutback in sales numbers.
And hasnt Canada just confirmed, due to a similar bs purchase/decision debacle, and the hideous cost.. that "we're outa here."
So should we.
Snake oil salesman dont just work for Big Pharma, they work for the US Military Industrial Complex as well.
And look to something with TWO engines, better range and payload..OR if you want to leave the heavy hitting to the Super Hornets and Growlers...there are plenty of agile fighters to choose from.
And certainly at a much better cost benefit. No need to bankrupt the country with 100 !
F35s..PLUS spare parts. My Dog! $quillions.
Oh sorry, we already are in serious deficit.
Never mind ...make it 15 submarines as well.
Where's the due process?, tendering? any Parliamentry debate or democratic process? WTF??? Any angry taxpayers?? Hullo???
This is the NBN of the skies.!! FFS.
Have a read of the Wiki articles..Loved the bit where probs were solved with the computer stuff during maintenance by shutting down and restarting. That might not be an option for the pilot when the ONE engine craps out at 300 ft. No time to reboot the whole system due to gravity.
I'm sure the Lockheed shareholders wont mind if we prang a few (dozen), good for business at the latest price of $180Mil, due cutback in sales numbers.
And hasnt Canada just confirmed, due to a similar bs purchase/decision debacle, and the hideous cost.. that "we're outa here."
So should we.
Snake oil salesman dont just work for Big Pharma, they work for the US Military Industrial Complex as well.
And look to something with TWO engines, better range and payload..OR if you want to leave the heavy hitting to the Super Hornets and Growlers...there are plenty of agile fighters to choose from.
And certainly at a much better cost benefit. No need to bankrupt the country with 100 !
F35s..PLUS spare parts. My Dog! $quillions.Oh sorry, we already are in serious deficit.
Never mind ...make it 15 submarines as well.
Join Date: Aug 2009
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How do you use a touch screen when you are pulling 6g??
I am going to take a wild stab in the dark here and assume the stick and throttle still have plenty of buttons and switches on them.
NBN...
very pleased to hear that...but the cost???
For that sort of dosh, it had better work, too.
Being (dumb) and happy with what Ive got..not sure I can afford twice the speed for quadruple the cost or whatever.
With techo stuff advancing so rapidly...like the camera you buy today is already "obsolete"...next model around the corner, etc. Same with aircraft electronics and systems, no doubt.
So when are we going to get them, to fly/play with then..??
And I'm sure the boys and girls in blue will give it their best shot to stop them coming back to earth wrongly...as they do.
Dopey OZ should be putting $$s into agile, fighter UAVs..using the excellent techo skills of the smart electronics and aeronautical folk who do exist in this country. Buy Australian! Innovate.? Que?
Oh sorry, we're just a little ally, here take our money
Are the F 35s something we just have to have...regardless of the cost.?
IMHO..NO
For that sort of dosh, it had better work, too.
Being (dumb) and happy with what Ive got..not sure I can afford twice the speed for quadruple the cost or whatever.
With techo stuff advancing so rapidly...like the camera you buy today is already "obsolete"...next model around the corner, etc. Same with aircraft electronics and systems, no doubt.
So when are we going to get them, to fly/play with then..??
And I'm sure the boys and girls in blue will give it their best shot to stop them coming back to earth wrongly...as they do.
Dopey OZ should be putting $$s into agile, fighter UAVs..using the excellent techo skills of the smart electronics and aeronautical folk who do exist in this country. Buy Australian! Innovate.? Que?
Oh sorry, we're just a little ally, here take our money
Are the F 35s something we just have to have...regardless of the cost.?
IMHO..NO
Join Date: Jul 2010
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When I walked through Udvar-Hazy I looked at the payload and thought 'you are kidding right?' A GFPT doing a BAK test would quickly work out it's the C172 of fighter aircraft.
It looks like smoke & mirrors to me. It's an awesome looking machine from front on, but as every horny 18 year old dood quickly finds out, looks ain't everything
It looks like smoke & mirrors to me. It's an awesome looking machine from front on, but as every horny 18 year old dood quickly finds out, looks ain't everything
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Re: NBN - the major cost of putting in the NBN is laying fibre that we can continually upgrade as optical technology improves. Think of it as a national highway that we can multiply the speed limit and lanes by 10, simply by replacing the traffic lights at either end. In time the uses and capabilities will be used, even if right now it seems overkill for downloading cat pictures.
My gut feel on the F-35 is its going to be lacking capability for a long time and really not the right platform for us. Simply down to its load out capability, range and being a single engine platform for our wide terrain. Not to mention we don't get the full stealth capability. I am not even sure there is a good option to select right now, but I think the fact we have not seriously evaluated that question is disturbing. For the amounts of money we will be throwing at it, I would have thought we would think long and hard about what we want because we don't buy fighters that often.
Also with Four Corners, I think they had the same dump on the new guy when the decision for the super hornets was announced. They had the same air power guys showing how because we no longer had the F-111s we would lose any air war as soon as our tankers were shot down, and that the hornets lacked the range, speed and load for long range strikes. At any rate they seem to like letting Air Power Australia have a say on how bad the DOD is at picking planes.
My gut feel on the F-35 is its going to be lacking capability for a long time and really not the right platform for us. Simply down to its load out capability, range and being a single engine platform for our wide terrain. Not to mention we don't get the full stealth capability. I am not even sure there is a good option to select right now, but I think the fact we have not seriously evaluated that question is disturbing. For the amounts of money we will be throwing at it, I would have thought we would think long and hard about what we want because we don't buy fighters that often.
Also with Four Corners, I think they had the same dump on the new guy when the decision for the super hornets was announced. They had the same air power guys showing how because we no longer had the F-111s we would lose any air war as soon as our tankers were shot down, and that the hornets lacked the range, speed and load for long range strikes. At any rate they seem to like letting Air Power Australia have a say on how bad the DOD is at picking planes.
Last edited by SgtBundy; 19th Feb 2013 at 10:47.
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Ahhh... thats the stuff...
Actually we should get some MiG-28s... I hear they are stealth, no one gets that close to them.
Actually we should get some MiG-28s... I hear they are stealth, no one gets that close to them.
Last edited by SgtBundy; 20th Feb 2013 at 10:27.
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Courtesy of Foxtell, I just watched the 4 corners show about this aircraft. How do we continually get ourselves into this mess. I mean really? I know that this is probably not the place to raise these issues but like you all, I'm a tax payer.
For example, how is it that we will have an RF22 displaying at Avalon and a Caribou (rumoured) that we don't even use any more....but no JSF35?
I think I might know the answer if what I saw is correct. Damm it!. I think that I'm becoming I'm so easily influenced these days by what I see on TV that it's starting to scare me.
I shake my head!
Stiky
For example, how is it that we will have an RF22 displaying at Avalon and a Caribou (rumoured) that we don't even use any more....but no JSF35?
I think I might know the answer if what I saw is correct. Damm it!. I think that I'm becoming I'm so easily influenced these days by what I see on TV that it's starting to scare me.
I shake my head!
Stiky
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I'd take what you see on 4 corners about military matters with a grain of salt. I seem to remember a beat up on the replacement of the F111 with the Super Hornet, a decision both Air Force and the Government now seem very happy with. I recall Labor being up in arms about it until they got into power, were briefed on the project, and then went very quiet. It's very easy to find people with an axe to grind who are against any major capital acquisition.
Courtesy of Foxtell, I just watched the 4 corners show about this aircraft. How do we continually get ourselves into this mess. I mean really? I know that this is probably not the place to raise these issues but like you all, I'm a tax payer.
I can't see why we simply don't equip ourselves with the gear suitable to combat any expected enemy. And let's face it, they are only likely to have ageing Migs or maybe Sukhoi's at best. So something like the F-18's we already have and good pilot training & avionics & backup should be more than enough.
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18w
That is fine for today, but these things are a 2020-2040 deal. We sit on our hands, we will be the force like the one you describe next.
I do wonder why we have no carrier capability too. Or do we rely on Uncle Sam too much
That is fine for today, but these things are a 2020-2040 deal. We sit on our hands, we will be the force like the one you describe next.
I do wonder why we have no carrier capability too. Or do we rely on Uncle Sam too much
What concerns me is a little matter called "Operational Sovereignty", my understanding is that we lose it with the F35 and I'm not sure we have it with the super F18 either.
Operational sovereignty means the ability to use the aircraft for Australias purposes without the need to obtain permission from the U.S.A. This includes the ability to modify the aircraft and more importantly its software.
We had this ability with the original F18, I don't believe we will have it with the F35, and in addition I believe we wont be doing any maintenance on it either - we sign a contract with Lockheed for that. In other words, if the U.S.A. doesn't like the idea of us using the aircraft, it will just stop working.
Operational sovereignty means the ability to use the aircraft for Australias purposes without the need to obtain permission from the U.S.A. This includes the ability to modify the aircraft and more importantly its software.
We had this ability with the original F18, I don't believe we will have it with the F35, and in addition I believe we wont be doing any maintenance on it either - we sign a contract with Lockheed for that. In other words, if the U.S.A. doesn't like the idea of us using the aircraft, it will just stop working.