I wonder...?
The Rex cadet thread from a while back had posts saying it would result in reduced EBA outcomes.
Cadets for overseas airlines are getting paid absolute peanuts. FOs in the US live on food stamps. Do you really think cadet programs are really for the "best" pilots? Nothing to do with the financial benefit of locking in a pilot for three times the cost of their initial training and a fraction the pay of a more experienced right seater?
Buddy, if cadet programs were serious about "the best" they would pay the cadets, same as the RAAF does, and eliminate them after their second remedial ride, same as the RAAF does, rather than emilinating the financially disadvantaged from day one.
That being said, once they have achieved their 1500 hrs observing the Captain, there is no question they are better pilots than when they started. Those that left the fold and built some command time in GA to return have gained the experience. Justify buying your job any way you like, but you can't argue the benefit of experience.
could have corrected the autocorrect, I didn't proof read it
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Enlighten me, what genuine issue is there with Cadets?
Although I have read from some Captains that the flying exhibited by some is below par, I don't think this is a problem in itself. Having only just begun my career, I probably don't fully understand the consequence of 'command experience' and how it will affect my transition from the right to the left seat in the future, but I would have thought after 10 years in the right seat, surely some of these cadets would exhibit similar skills to other direct entry, twin turbine/whatever pilots.
Pookey,
Most of us won't respond because as tankengine said you just don't know what you don't know.
j3
P.s. By 'Cream of the crop' I assume you mean financial crop...
Most of us won't respond because as tankengine said you just don't know what you don't know.
j3
P.s. By 'Cream of the crop' I assume you mean financial crop...
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I seem to recall hearing of a higher than average failure rate at the pointy end of RPT in 2007 when the airlines were recruiting like it was going out of fashion. They were all ex-GA pilots then. Admittedly the airlines were busily lowering their minimums in those days to the point that so long as you had ATPL theory done and a pulse you were at least assured of an interview but it does point to an issue that GA is not the be-all-to-end-all that some claim.
I don't necessarily think cadets are a bad thing but it depends entirely on the quality of the training and the bean-counters seem to be busily destroying that. However, the GA route does expand one's horizons and will probably give you the best aviation memories of any career. Miss out on that and you will never know what a fantastic experience you have missed.
I don't necessarily think cadets are a bad thing but it depends entirely on the quality of the training and the bean-counters seem to be busily destroying that. However, the GA route does expand one's horizons and will probably give you the best aviation memories of any career. Miss out on that and you will never know what a fantastic experience you have missed.
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Australia is quite unique in having the option for airlines to cherry-pick from a plethora of GA pilots. Looking at Europe, this isn't the case and for decades, 250 hour HCRPT FO's have been the norm. (The long-haulers may have some SO time.)
Statistics show those airlines are every bit as safe as ours.
I have no doubt a 250 hour FO would create more of a work load for the captain than does a more seasoned pilot, but at the end of the day, statistics don't lie.
It's all a much of muchness in the end.
Statistics show those airlines are every bit as safe as ours.
I have no doubt a 250 hour FO would create more of a work load for the captain than does a more seasoned pilot, but at the end of the day, statistics don't lie.
It's all a much of muchness in the end.
Bas,
I suppose you know you are committing aviation heresy, by sticking to the facts.
Don't you know you are not supposed to let the facts get in the way prejudice, parochialism and good old Australian bloody mindedness.
After all, we know best in Australia, don't we??
If aviation safety outcomes were proportional to the cubic volume of regulations, or the number of bureaucrats per aeroplane, we should be the world's safest.
Unfortunately, the statistics (presented in ICAO or FAA format) suggest otherwise.
Tootle pip!!
I suppose you know you are committing aviation heresy, by sticking to the facts.
Don't you know you are not supposed to let the facts get in the way prejudice, parochialism and good old Australian bloody mindedness.
After all, we know best in Australia, don't we??
If aviation safety outcomes were proportional to the cubic volume of regulations, or the number of bureaucrats per aeroplane, we should be the world's safest.
Unfortunately, the statistics (presented in ICAO or FAA format) suggest otherwise.
Tootle pip!!
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Yup. I got a call from a previous student last year asking if they knew of any twin command jobs because they couldn't get any time away from REX to meet the requirements for another job. Seems they were locked in for the next four years (seven total) repaying a substantial loan on crap pay while having no possibility of getting anything other than FO time. They weren't happy.
Cadets for overseas airlines are getting paid absolute peanuts. FOs in the US live on food stamps. Do you really think cadet programs are really for the "best" pilots? Nothing to do with the financial benefit of locking in a pilot for three times the cost of their initial training and a fraction the pay of a more experienced right seater?
Buddy, if cadet programs were serious about "the best" they would pay the cadets, same as the RAAF does, and eliminate them after their second remedial ride, same as the RAAF does, rather than emilinating the financially disadvantaged from day one.
That being said, once they have achieved their 1500 hrs observing the Captain, there is no question they are better pilots than when they started. Those that left the fold and built some command time in GA to return have gained the experience. Justify buying your job any way you like, but you can't argue the benefit of experience.
As a young, new pilot, half the problem I see with cadets in my fellow age bracket is attitude. They seem to think they're better than any GA guys. I guess the 'shiny jet syndrome' plays a role to all those slogging around in crappy GA planes, but hey, if you start flying a jet at age 18 and 300 hours (Yes, Jetstar Cadets do join the line on JET aircraft with under 500 hours total aeronautical experience) you'll never have anything to look forward to and you'll be bored by the time you're 30!
Out of curiosity, how far along are you? Have you got your PPL yet?
I seem to recall hearing of a higher than average failure rate at the pointy end of RPT in 2007 when the airlines were recruiting like it was going out of fashion. They were all ex-GA pilots then. Admittedly the airlines were busily lowering their minimums in those days to the point that so long as you had ATPL theory done and a pulse you were at least assured of an interview but it does point to an issue that GA is not the be-all-to-end-all that some claim.
I don't necessarily think cadets are a bad thing but it depends entirely on the quality of the training and the bean-counters seem to be busily destroying that. However, the GA route does expand one's horizons and will probably give you the best aviation memories of any career. Miss out on that and you will never know what a fantastic experience you have missed.
Bas,
I suppose you know you are committing aviation heresy, by sticking to the facts.
Don't you know you are not supposed to let the facts get in the way prejudice, parochialism and good old Australian bloody mindedness.
After all, we know best in Australia, don't we??
If aviation safety outcomes were proportional to the cubic volume of regulations, or the number of bureaucrats per aeroplane, we should be the world's safest.
Unfortunately, the statistics (presented in ICAO or FAA format) suggest otherwise.
Tootle pip!!
I suppose you know you are committing aviation heresy, by sticking to the facts.
Don't you know you are not supposed to let the facts get in the way prejudice, parochialism and good old Australian bloody mindedness.
After all, we know best in Australia, don't we??
If aviation safety outcomes were proportional to the cubic volume of regulations, or the number of bureaucrats per aeroplane, we should be the world's safest.
Unfortunately, the statistics (presented in ICAO or FAA format) suggest otherwise.
Tootle pip!!
If you were a police officer at a road block and had the choice of two cars to stop and check, which one would you pick ?
a) New family sedan being driven by a middle aged man wearing a suit with his wife and children in the car, all wearing seat belts.
b) Beaten up XF Falcon driven by a couple of young males wearing singlets and covered in tattoos.
Of the above two choices, which one is more likely to result in some tickets being issued for insurance/licence/registration/road worthy/outstanding warrants/drink driving/drugs/stolen property etc
Apply the above thinking in a aviation scenario.
a) New family sedan being driven by a middle aged man wearing a suit with his wife and children in the car, all wearing seat belts.
b) Beaten up XF Falcon driven by a couple of young males wearing singlets and covered in tattoos.
Of the above two choices, which one is more likely to result in some tickets being issued for insurance/licence/registration/road worthy/outstanding warrants/drink driving/drugs/stolen property etc
Apply the above thinking in a aviation scenario.
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Pokey, mah man.........well done 
looks like you've overridden iPad bullish!t spell & grammar check! Mate, cadetships are all well & good done properly. Thing is, Jetstar only do it to cut costs & shaft their pilots over P&C's
I've had two occurrences of Captains being incapacitated (us old blokes get a bit fragile & need looking after occasionally) at the controls. The ultimate test has always been, would I be happy with my family being flown by this company/pilot? A 2 fiddy hour cadet at the controls in the above circumstance? Fark off 
I do a bit of flying, I put my money where my mouth is. I really don't give a rats arse if pilots undercut each other, whore themselves to fly. Just so long as I've got options when I'm buying a ticket for myself or for my precious cargo
looks like you've overridden iPad bullish!t spell & grammar check! Mate, cadetships are all well & good done properly. Thing is, Jetstar only do it to cut costs & shaft their pilots over P&C'sI've had two occurrences of Captains being incapacitated (us old blokes get a bit fragile & need looking after occasionally
) at the controls. The ultimate test has always been, would I be happy with my family being flown by this company/pilot? A 2 fiddy hour cadet at the controls in the above circumstance? Fark off I do a bit of flying, I put my money where my mouth is. I really don't give a rats arse if pilots undercut each other, whore themselves to fly. Just so long as I've got options when I'm buying a ticket for myself or for my precious cargo
Last edited by Jack Ranga; 22nd Jan 2013 at 13:19.
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I have a CPL and recently scored my first job flying a 206 and I'm loving it. I have friends in cadetships, and although they certainly don't seem bored or disappointed with the future prospects at the moment, it will be interesting to see down the track what happens.
Pookey,
You seem to have already made your mind up about cadetship progams, so tell us what you want to hear so we can regurgitate it back to you.
j3
You seem to have already made your mind up about cadetship progams, so tell us what you want to hear so we can regurgitate it back to you.
j3
I paid Rex $85000 to leave (breaking my bond) for a c172 job and co pilot on a pa31 on the other side of the country...
I'm pretty flabbergasted...
Big brass ones, good luck to ya!
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For those who go for one straight out though, it's a good way to fast track your career if flying jets is your ultimate goal. I wouldn't hold it against someone for choosing this path.
Hat's off to you! I'm sure such an undertaking would not have been taken lightly. All the best, sounds like it's going well...
Last edited by josephfeatherweight; 31st Jan 2013 at 10:24.
