Mercy Flights

[weloveseaplanes]

The question was would we do the flight?

Fair enough.

Another question you could ask is, if your loved one was dying would you want the pilot to fly her to safety or leave her to die?

I agree with Roger Greendeck. It comes down to Risk Management, and Courage to do what you know is right and is required.

What ever the pilot decides he has to look at himself in the mirror for the rest of his days . . .

[FokkerInYour12]

When all else fails, turn to the bible:

Rumack: Can you fly this plane, and land it?
Ted Striker: Surely you can't be serious.
Rumack: I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

And for afer the fact:

Elaine Dickinson: You got a letter from headquarters this morning.
Ted Striker: What is it?
Elaine Dickinson: It's a big building where generals meet, but that's not important.

And during the event:

Captain Oveur: You ever been in a cockpit before?
Joey: No sir, I've never been up in a plane before.
Captain Oveur: You ever seen a grown man naked?

(sorry had to do it - it's Friday)

[Sunfish]

Rule One in any rescue or first aid situation: DO NOT BECOME A CASUALTY YOURSELF.

Breaking procedural rules, violating controlled airspace, etc, etc. Possible.

Violating the laws of physics and attempting to learn on the job. Not

[Ixixly]

On a slightly different but related note. We had CASA come out to do some Safety Talks at a town a while ago, great bunch of blokes who were there and whilst a lot of it was common sense stuff, it was nice to have a refresher and a good intro for new guys coming into the wet season.

One point brought up to the CASA Blokes was conducting an IFR Approach when your Instrument Rating is no longer current and/or you're not current on the approach type.

Their view at the time was that if you were in a bad situation where you ended up IFR and needed a way to get on the ground, you were confident you could SAFELY perform the approach, the aircraft itself was suitably equipped and the tower was informed of your predicament and what you were going to do and you reported the situation to CASA after the flight they wouldn't hang you out to dry and would be supportive as long as you had a good reason for doing so.

[thorn bird]

I think the question to ask is, is it worth risking my career
and livelyhood to conduct such a flight.
Given the nature of our regulator I dont think I would, not
without an authorisation signed by the Skull himself.
Ixily
mate only a fool would believe anything CASA said.

[Ixixly]

ThornBird, I agree you have to take what they say with a big grain of salt, but having personally had dealings with them after having an incident in which an aircraft was written off, I found them to be quite understanding. They took on board all I said, no finger pointing just trying to find anything useful in terms of safety and then doing what could be done to plug any gaps found. Just my experiences so far.

[YPJT]

When a potentially life threatening incident occurs many untrained and inexperienced people tend to throw caution and common sense to the wind and do something they would not otherwise dream of.

I cringe at the number of times people have said they would load an injured person into the nearest avalable bug smasher and fly them to a hospital. One clown even thought it would be ok to just plonk his Cessna down on Langley Park because it was nice and close to Royal Perth Hospital.

I would suggest that in most cases, you will help the ijured person more by applying sound first aid until qualified help arrives. Just my 2c worth.

[Desert Flower]

One such situation that the operation I'm involved in will declare a mercy flight for, is when the use of car headlights are required for landing.

We are trained to be able to do them, however they're technically not legal.

What about flares? In some outback areas car headlights would be far better than the flare setups!

DF.

[poonpossum]

Had a kid pop the bone out of his leg a few weeks into my first job, got him back to the mainland after end of daylight. Runway was dark but there were still wisps of light in the sky. He was bleeding everywhere and it wasn't nice.

RFDS can't land on the island in question and a boat would have had him about 4 hours further away from first aid then what we would have.

They flew him out the next morning after the nurses stabalised him over night and he lived and kept his leg.

[morno]

We use car headlights when all other means of lighting have been exhausted DF. Flares are always considered (used them many a time, excellent lighting), however sometimes some places just don't have them. Or the owners are away and the caretaker doesn't know where they are. Or it's blowing a gale (obviously still within flying limits, ) and the use of flares would either cause the countryside to be set alight or not even be possible to get going!

There are many situations, however, we can't just use car headlights unless it's a mercy flight.

morno

[Biggles78]

Originally Posted by VH-XXX

Not quite.... that's what a Mercy flight is all about, where you KNOW you are going to break a rule.

You are of course quite right however I was looking at it from a personal perspective and a worst case one. I also misread the OP and took it as a question from someone with a newish PPL and was hesitant about "approving" Mercy Flight as such. I shouldn't have made that misleading comment about the regulations in this case so my apologies for that but my intentions, though misguided, were well meaning.

I am multi endorsed but I would not be climbing into a PA31 without some previous time on type. I have read the POH, am theoretically quite familiar with it and could more than likely handle a circuit or 5 but at night and from what I have flown that would be a handful even without the added pressure of a Mercy Flight in mind (remember that Get Home Itis is too much pressure for some pilots never mind that their friend/family member may die if you do nothing). Just another thought, even though I have read all about the PT6 and its' operation, I would be hesitant about using a C208. I have no doubts in my ability to fly one but if anything went wrong I could be seriously up **** creek.

Weather forecast, we know how quickly it can change here. We only have to cast our minds back a few weeks to the tragic flight of VH-UXG. Experienced pilot and he had a forecast.

International border was covered and why. If done in Asia then you are likely to spend time in a concrete room with vertical bars on the window but then a Mercy Flight wouldn't be covered since you most likely won't be under Oz regs. I don't think then in my response you would get shot down flying from the NT to QLD.

Night flight. Well, certainly not in a multi if not endorsed on type. I just like to know where all the switches and breakers are from muscle memory (if possible) in case the lights go out. Most certainly not if no forecast available and if the pilot undertaking this "flight" had never landed at night. I still remember my first night landings at an International airport that was well lit and waiting for the runway edge lights to come up to eye level in my peripheral vision. Lots of concentration was required. I tested myself on what concentration was required at night when I was flying dual by talking to the instructor. My babbling stopped when I was turning final which was surprising as I had no trouble with my instructor patter to a landing during daylight.

Over water, ok I may have wimped it on this one (I am a believer that the engine deliberately goes into auto rough as it goes feet wet, but how does it know? ). King Island either north or south yes. However distance to cover and aircraft speed would need to be considered as would the ELT/EPIRB. Sorry, time spent over the water would probably be a better way of expressing that previous sentence. The time of a C152 crossing Bass Strait is obviously not the same as a C310.

Add all those circumstances together and the holes can start to line up. I flew with some wise words that I shall forever remember. If there is doubt then there is no doubt.

Someone wiser than me, hell, road kill is wiser than me, said in an above post that Mercy Flights are a judgement call. But what pressure is placed on the pilot and by the pilot themself to make the decision to fly especially in a time sensitive environment. Perhaps Mercy Flights should be limited to PPLs who have a minimum number of hours, say 500 and to CPLs.

I feel for anyone who has to make the decision on whether to make a flight like this or not who really doesn't quite have the experience or qualifications to make it without requiring a lot of thought for a yes or no answer.

[Frank Arouet]

Frank - with respect

I forgot to add, the snakebite victim had chronic renal disorder.

But then again to dispense with the lecture on snakebite statistics, the victim could just as easily been stabbed by a stingray. What's the stats on that survivability?

The point obviously lost was the pilot had a NVFR, had flown Solo the night before, but due to not carrying pax in the preceeding required interval, he was technically not current to carry pax.

Now pick that apart.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I am sure that many on here who have been around for a few years will be able to recall a number of well meaing "mercy flights that ended in tears. I won't quote examples here, but can personally recall at least two that resulted in multiple loss of life.

Fly a twin without endorsement - No!
Fly without a weather forecast - Depends!
Fly across an international border - No!
Fly at night without rating - No!
Fly over water without raft or survival gear - Maybe!

Dr

[Frank Arouet]

The bottom line is referenced by the term "The Pilot in Command".

Who in Canberra is in any position to judge a midnight flight in NT when a mate is in grave and serious distress.

We really live in a "Nanny State" don't we?

If you consider it that serious, "JUST DO IT" and suffer the consequences later.

I've never been done for my last one. Good mate broke both legs riding a quad. Pig got at him while crawling nearly 8KM home. Chewed him up a bit. Night takeoff on the landing light from a claypan in a Comanche.

No VHF reception and the plastic cup from the HF is on the boundary wire at the last airport.

No phone, just yourself to decide.

What would you do?

[VH-XXX]

Night takeoff on the landing light from a claypan in a Comanche.

Doesn't sound too bad, so why not. If it was good enough to land, it is probably good enough to take off again.

[Frank Arouet]

Yes, well. You had to be there really.

Pilot in command had a certain meaning. It still has.

One wonders today about the firearms and ammunition in the aircraft that night. Todays standard, destination is a security controlled airport.

I've had the best years of my flying. I pity all of you who have to ask directions about legalities before performing an unselfish act of kindness. I'm over it.

[VH-XXX]

Don't worry Frank, there's still plenty of fun flying going on out there, just like there used to be. The trick is not getting caught up in the politics and subscribing to the digital era of finger pointing and blame game. Agreed though, things have changed, particularly since the inception of iPhones.

[Aerodynamisist]

Thankfully I have not been put in the situation of having to perform a mercy flightt and I hope I never am. However it is nice to know there is some protection in the form of a mercy flight clause, even if it doesn't fit our pre-conceived notion that it would give us direction on the rules it is OK to break.

Given that Smithy taught Nancy I guess they both would have done the same thing.

[InDaBack]

I have been a paramedic for over 30 years and of the thousands of emergency calls I have responded to, very few are real life threatening emergencies.

With people who are not involved in emergency response, and that includes a lot of doctors and nurses, the biggest problem is panic because they don't really know what they are dealing with and what to do about it.

My advice to you as pilots is to
take a step back, take a deep breath.
get on the phone to the RFDS doctor and ask for advice
THEN
make your Risk/Benefit assessment as to undertaking the flight.

RFDS, Careflight etc are very good with giving information and helping people handle an emergency so don't be scared to ask.

[Fission]

"It's easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission"

I understand that Mercy Flights don't permit cart blanche rule breaking, but provide an option when someone is in grave danger. What interests me is the legal wrangling over 'should the flight have happened in the first place'.

As we can see here, there are many differing opinions about what is acceptable.

I'm experienced, and I have children - both make me risk averse and aware of my limitations. However, I'd be prepared to take a considered increase in risk to save life that could potentially cost me my licence.