Regulator - What is going on?
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Regulator - What is going on?
For far too long now standards in actual FLYING training seem to have been degrading. Don't get me wrong - tar and brush is not my thing. But the loss of the BIG PICTURE whilst delivering quality training- initial and on going - seems to be disappearing.
Instructors have gone from teaching people to FLY AIRCRAFT, to teaching a critical path of administration and arse covering which has been fed down from above. Right from the TOP.
Duplicate and Triplicate paperwork that REDUCES efficiency of a good instructor. Ridiculous polices and procedures put in place so that when poo hits fan - people arses are covered. It seems all red tape is now starting to weigh very heavily on efficiency and quality, and now peoples lives.
There must be a change on the ethos of our regulator, fed down to our flying training organisations, and onto the pilots, new and qualified.
I know this thread has been covered. I know it has been hashed out. But the trend is now shifting from bent aeroplanes with absolute ridiculous reasons, to complete write offs and even worse ----- loss of life.
WHAT IS GOING ON????? Is it just me or are Incidents and Accident rates actually increasing? Does anyone have any stats at hand ? Is there a lack of reporting ? due to fear of something.
As long as I have been flying the 'regulator' has alwas been spoken of as the guys who are out to get you, fail you. Not the guys who are trying to help you. Why do they have this reputation ? Maybe they are, maybe they are only the stories that are passed around. I'm not saying this is the case merely what seem to be the concensus.
What is NOT concensus is that the 'regulator' are those guys that are out actively trying help pilots, give them advice, enhance and promote further training and safety, - the guys that are encouraging experienced pilots in the private sector to revisit training they probably haven't done in 20 years, and heaven forbid PROMOTE flying in Australia.
Rightly or wrongly, it would seem that this makes the 'regulator' a hinderance to our daily profession and not a help - ???
I know there are Safety seminars and things of that nature, but it just doesn't seem to be enough. There must be a culture shift - away from the "REGULATION OF THE PAPERWORK" - filtering through to our flying schools - to our students and qualified pilots.
People are dying. It is the nature of the pastime/industry, can more be done?
Agree disagree ? I know there are good people working the regulator, but it just seems more needs to be done. If I have been pointed or negative - apologies - just frustrated to see this day in day out.
This isnt a bash but something to create discussion = Any/only Positive discussion points please.
Instructors have gone from teaching people to FLY AIRCRAFT, to teaching a critical path of administration and arse covering which has been fed down from above. Right from the TOP.
Duplicate and Triplicate paperwork that REDUCES efficiency of a good instructor. Ridiculous polices and procedures put in place so that when poo hits fan - people arses are covered. It seems all red tape is now starting to weigh very heavily on efficiency and quality, and now peoples lives.
There must be a change on the ethos of our regulator, fed down to our flying training organisations, and onto the pilots, new and qualified.
I know this thread has been covered. I know it has been hashed out. But the trend is now shifting from bent aeroplanes with absolute ridiculous reasons, to complete write offs and even worse ----- loss of life.
WHAT IS GOING ON????? Is it just me or are Incidents and Accident rates actually increasing? Does anyone have any stats at hand ? Is there a lack of reporting ? due to fear of something.
As long as I have been flying the 'regulator' has alwas been spoken of as the guys who are out to get you, fail you. Not the guys who are trying to help you. Why do they have this reputation ? Maybe they are, maybe they are only the stories that are passed around. I'm not saying this is the case merely what seem to be the concensus.
What is NOT concensus is that the 'regulator' are those guys that are out actively trying help pilots, give them advice, enhance and promote further training and safety, - the guys that are encouraging experienced pilots in the private sector to revisit training they probably haven't done in 20 years, and heaven forbid PROMOTE flying in Australia.
Rightly or wrongly, it would seem that this makes the 'regulator' a hinderance to our daily profession and not a help - ???
I know there are Safety seminars and things of that nature, but it just doesn't seem to be enough. There must be a culture shift - away from the "REGULATION OF THE PAPERWORK" - filtering through to our flying schools - to our students and qualified pilots.
People are dying. It is the nature of the pastime/industry, can more be done?
Agree disagree ? I know there are good people working the regulator, but it just seems more needs to be done. If I have been pointed or negative - apologies - just frustrated to see this day in day out.
This isnt a bash but something to create discussion = Any/only Positive discussion points please.
Last edited by wateroff; 9th Nov 2012 at 01:44.
T'ain't like the 'Ole days', when an 'examiner of airmen' would grab you over a beer, with "I wanna see U"....and a 'heart to heart' would follow.....
What's the current phrase?
Something like 'Criminal Offence - 50 Penalty Units'....(?)
What's the current phrase?
Something like 'Criminal Offence - 50 Penalty Units'....(?)
I believe it's because CASA attracts the narcissists of aviation.
It is also the last bastion of semi decent terms and conditions for those who never cut it out for a major airline.
So you have a combination of unfounded ego's, bitter and twisted poor me's and narcissists running the regulator.
Half hate us with a passion, while the other half think they know better.
The only solution is to can the whole show and adopt the FARs or register airframes across the pond and adopt their licencing system under the trans tasman agreement.
Everyone knows CASA is a joke, and they know we know it.
It is also the last bastion of semi decent terms and conditions for those who never cut it out for a major airline.
So you have a combination of unfounded ego's, bitter and twisted poor me's and narcissists running the regulator.
Half hate us with a passion, while the other half think they know better.
The only solution is to can the whole show and adopt the FARs or register airframes across the pond and adopt their licencing system under the trans tasman agreement.
Everyone knows CASA is a joke, and they know we know it.
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The only solution is to can the whole show and adopt the FARs or register airframes across the pond and adopt their licencing system under the trans tasman agreement.
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Aviation isn't alone
This country has long past exceeded the yanks capacity for stupid rules and regulations.
Remember we have people here paid to 'find' new rules.
You can jump up and down all you like, but it is only going to get worse.
Even my own industry, the payers expect me to work to a manufacturers standard that they themselves cannot obtain inside a week.
I only see this country regulating itself to ruination..........the yanks woke up a long time ago, and the kiwi's woke up properly *at least in aviation terms*
Remember we have people here paid to 'find' new rules.
You can jump up and down all you like, but it is only going to get worse.
Even my own industry, the payers expect me to work to a manufacturers standard that they themselves cannot obtain inside a week.
I only see this country regulating itself to ruination..........the yanks woke up a long time ago, and the kiwi's woke up properly *at least in aviation terms*
In the olden days, the AOPA and other groups used to put a lot of scrutiny )under what was probably then the Dept of Transport Air Transport Group) highlighting the number of management positions with no flying experience. Its time to do that gain. Is there anyone senior in CASA with real world experience anymore?
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Water & GG wholeheartedly agree with your statements. Aviation is becoming untenable in Australia, we are regulating ourselves out of business?.
Consider it is two thirds less to charter the same aircraft in the USA than in Australia, Why?.
Australia is no safer statistically than the USA, Why?
The big mistake we made was not closing ranks and allowing our regulator to move regulation to the criminal code (at what cost?) and remove "foster and promote" from their charter. This let the fox loose in the hen house
providing employment for that bottom feeding segment of the community "The lawyers", love to know how many CASA employs now compared to pre criminal code.
No doubt the bright spark in the public service that had that idea was attracted by the enormous revenues being generated from road traffic
laws, hey! hey!, make regulations that people are unlikely to comply with and get on the gravy train.
Does safety by prosecution work? nope obviously not.
Does safety by education work? seems to have in the USA.
Consider it is two thirds less to charter the same aircraft in the USA than in Australia, Why?.
Australia is no safer statistically than the USA, Why?
The big mistake we made was not closing ranks and allowing our regulator to move regulation to the criminal code (at what cost?) and remove "foster and promote" from their charter. This let the fox loose in the hen house
providing employment for that bottom feeding segment of the community "The lawyers", love to know how many CASA employs now compared to pre criminal code.
No doubt the bright spark in the public service that had that idea was attracted by the enormous revenues being generated from road traffic
laws, hey! hey!, make regulations that people are unlikely to comply with and get on the gravy train.
Does safety by prosecution work? nope obviously not.
Does safety by education work? seems to have in the USA.
I wonder if any of you have read the regulations pertaining to other industries?
I wonder if any of you are aware of the mine managers and engineers who have been fined, gaoled or had suspended sentences imposed following the death of only a couple of workers?
CASA is an absolutely toothless tiger. They pick on the little blokes because they can get a result, and in some cases the result is deserved. I have seen cases when they had all the dirt on a person deliberately flouting the rules (bit like the Hempel case) but they haven't bothered because a conviction would be too hard to secure.
**** of a job, bound on all sides by politics and money. Glad it's not me.
I wonder if any of you are aware of the mine managers and engineers who have been fined, gaoled or had suspended sentences imposed following the death of only a couple of workers?
CASA is an absolutely toothless tiger. They pick on the little blokes because they can get a result, and in some cases the result is deserved. I have seen cases when they had all the dirt on a person deliberately flouting the rules (bit like the Hempel case) but they haven't bothered because a conviction would be too hard to secure.
**** of a job, bound on all sides by politics and money. Glad it's not me.
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Training standards!
As one quote from an industry leader not so long back....
"Anyone passing a CPL today, would not have passed a PPL 20 or so years ago"
From my observations, I believe that is sadly close to the mark!!
"Anyone passing a CPL today, would not have passed a PPL 20 or so years ago"
From my observations, I believe that is sadly close to the mark!!
My experience of CPL training as a CFI is either:
1/. mature students demanding a high standard of themselves or
2/. young students barely out of nappies constantly arguing with me and my instructors about the standard required and their "right" to progress at hour benchmarks regardless of standards achieved (or not).
If I their parents are paying $90 per hour for my instructors time, surely it is worth listening to my instructors opinion of your precious golden-haired sons performance?
1/. mature students demanding a high standard of themselves or
2/. young students barely out of nappies constantly arguing with me and my instructors about the standard required and their "right" to progress at hour benchmarks regardless of standards achieved (or not).
If I their parents are paying $90 per hour for my instructors time, surely it is worth listening to my instructors opinion of your precious golden-haired sons performance?
make regulations that people are unlikely to comply
"do not write a piece of legislation unless you can add a penalty to that legislation"
In the olden days
, one could ask an Examiner face to face and get an answer. Now it is hard to get phone call back, an email answered, an opinion or advice and "face to face" is out of the question.
Mail goes missing, assigned FOIs constantly changing, sections changing names. How many names has the "Service Centre" had
.
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A quote from the above link - My bold and underline -
"In 1999, CASA was directed to "minimise the distinction between charter and Regular Public Transport (RPT) operators". "
1999?! Boy, they really jumped right on that right away, didn't they?!
"In 1999, CASA was directed to "minimise the distinction between charter and Regular Public Transport (RPT) operators". "
1999?! Boy, they really jumped right on that right away, didn't they?!
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Kiwis awake?
Jaz - I don't think so. You want to see the latest from our useless lot!
Here are some of fee increases they arbitrarily imposed:
Change of aircraft ownership - 757% increase (Yep 757 not 7.57 or even 75.7)
Medical 'audit' (of their appointed AME's) - 410% increase (as above no decimal point).
As an older PPL I am looking at at least NZ$1000 for a Class 2 medical.
Do you want to swap regulators? Have we got a deal for you.
Here are some of fee increases they arbitrarily imposed:
Change of aircraft ownership - 757% increase (Yep 757 not 7.57 or even 75.7)
Medical 'audit' (of their appointed AME's) - 410% increase (as above no decimal point).
As an older PPL I am looking at at least NZ$1000 for a Class 2 medical.
Do you want to swap regulators? Have we got a deal for you.
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Capn SD, nope, no use at all because the "regs" vary according to the FOI of the day, whats Kosher here may not be Kosher there. Even the pro's writing manuals will ask you who's your FOI?.Oh you need a "Worthless" manual or a 'Malfunction" manual, bit like the guy in the restaurant who asks "Whats the catch of the day?"..waiter replies "Anyone who orders the fish!!."
Last edited by thorn bird; 14th Nov 2012 at 07:17.
