Fatal Crash, Replica Mustang, Emu Gully Airstrip, Queensland
From the article linked above
Is it more likely the problem was the reason for the return and control of the aircraft was lost executing the return, perhaps attempting the "ïmpossible turn"?
Automotive engines haven't the best reliability in aircraft use and neither have gearboxes/reduction drives on engines with less than 9 cylinders been all that successful in aircraft. It sounds like this aircraft had both.
Two ag outfits over here each spent a kings ransom developing their own V8 engines (one a big block GM the other Ford) plus gearbox setups to replace the venerable IO720, In the end they gave up.
The 52-year-old Toowoomba and Lockyer Valley identity appeared to be attempting to return to the Emu Gully airstrip when a mechanical failure sent the plane plummeting to earth.
Automotive engines haven't the best reliability in aircraft use and neither have gearboxes/reduction drives on engines with less than 9 cylinders been all that successful in aircraft. It sounds like this aircraft had both.
Two ag outfits over here each spent a kings ransom developing their own V8 engines (one a big block GM the other Ford) plus gearbox setups to replace the venerable IO720, In the end they gave up.
Last edited by 27/09; 8th Nov 2012 at 07:57.
There are heaps of new gearboxes for auto engines every year.
Just go to Oshkosh each year and you will find a couple of new versions that are claimed can take you to the moon and back.
They are their the first year to try and sell their product, most don't come back a second year but if they do they don't make a third year.
A year after that we all talk about....
"do you all remember that Gearbox that used to be made for the car engine....., I wonder whatever happened to that......"
and, the cycle repeats itself.
Just go to Oshkosh each year and you will find a couple of new versions that are claimed can take you to the moon and back.
They are their the first year to try and sell their product, most don't come back a second year but if they do they don't make a third year.
A year after that we all talk about....
"do you all remember that Gearbox that used to be made for the car engine....., I wonder whatever happened to that......"
and, the cycle repeats itself.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
From what I understand there was not any attempt to turn back, there was nowhere else to go.
As for auto engine installations, the engines are not usually the problem odd as it seems, it is all the ancillary items including reduction drives etc.
Lycoming and TCM/CMI have that sorted, Rotax for the smaller sizes.
As for auto engine installations, the engines are not usually the problem odd as it seems, it is all the ancillary items including reduction drives etc.
Lycoming and TCM/CMI have that sorted, Rotax for the smaller sizes.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: More than 300km from SY, Australia
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
atsb and it's investigations
From:
Probe too expensive for Lockyer Valley pilot Terry Kronk | Gatton Star
AS police investigations begin into the plane crash that claimed the life of Lockyer Valley identity Terry Kronk, Australia's peak transport investigation authority says it cannot afford to look into the incident.
An Air Transport Safety Board (ATSB) spokesman said it could only investigate a "finite" number of incidents each year, and it will not be investigating the Helidon crash.
"In this instance, because it is amateur-built, it helped to inform our decision," the spokesman said.
Mr Kronk died when his replica P51 Mustang, classed as an "experimental" aircraft, crashed into the ground soon after take-off.
The Queensland Police Service Forensic Crash Unit is conducting investigations to prepare a report for the coroner on the crash of the experimental Mustang P51 replica, which crashed on take-off from the Emu Gully airstrip at 9.25am on Saturday.
The 52-year-old Toowoomba and Lockyer Valley identity appeared to be attempting to return to the Emu Gully airstrip when a mechanical failure sent the plane plummeting to earth.
Close family friend and spokesman for the Kronk family Mark Freeman paid tribute to his long-time friend and expressed shock at his untimely death. "It was all a huge shock and we are all a bit numb," Mr Freeman said.
"He was passionate about aviation and was a great pilot who loved flying.
"He flew every week."
An Air Transport Safety Bureau spokesman said the ATSB had ruled out any investigations into the accident due to budget constraints.
Well atsb??
Didn't you say at the Senate hearing that you still had funds at the end of the year???
Probe too expensive for Lockyer Valley pilot Terry Kronk | Gatton Star
AS police investigations begin into the plane crash that claimed the life of Lockyer Valley identity Terry Kronk, Australia's peak transport investigation authority says it cannot afford to look into the incident.
An Air Transport Safety Board (ATSB) spokesman said it could only investigate a "finite" number of incidents each year, and it will not be investigating the Helidon crash.
"In this instance, because it is amateur-built, it helped to inform our decision," the spokesman said.
Mr Kronk died when his replica P51 Mustang, classed as an "experimental" aircraft, crashed into the ground soon after take-off.
The Queensland Police Service Forensic Crash Unit is conducting investigations to prepare a report for the coroner on the crash of the experimental Mustang P51 replica, which crashed on take-off from the Emu Gully airstrip at 9.25am on Saturday.
The 52-year-old Toowoomba and Lockyer Valley identity appeared to be attempting to return to the Emu Gully airstrip when a mechanical failure sent the plane plummeting to earth.
Close family friend and spokesman for the Kronk family Mark Freeman paid tribute to his long-time friend and expressed shock at his untimely death. "It was all a huge shock and we are all a bit numb," Mr Freeman said.
"He was passionate about aviation and was a great pilot who loved flying.
"He flew every week."
An Air Transport Safety Bureau spokesman said the ATSB had ruled out any investigations into the accident due to budget constraints.
Well atsb??
Didn't you say at the Senate hearing that you still had funds at the end of the year???
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: location loaction
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dunno, probably a cause to the accident that may prevent similar deaths in the future? Regardless of category, if an aircraft crashes and takes a life it should be investigated. Bet Terrys family is halpy about the accident being overloomed simply because a government organisation has no money. What a crock of **** suppose the fat cats have to pay for the xmas ball somehow!
Rocket
Rocket
Dunno, probably a cause to the accident that may prevent similar deaths in the future? Regardless of category, if an aircraft crashes and takes a life it should be investigated. Bet Terrys family is happy about the accident being overlooked simply because a government organisation has no money. What a crock of **** suppose the fat cats have to pay for the xmas ball somehow!
Rocket
Rocket
...the accident being overlooked...
referance -"...prevent similar..." There is little about a single build aircraft that could be compared to any other aircraft. Hence there are no other 'like' type aircraft for the ATSB to be concerned about.
.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: location loaction
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is correct, however not so long ago a replica spitfire crashed near Gympie with a similar if not the same engine. Its also quite possible that there are others quietly putting together something similar in their garage at home.
Its unlikely the crash was caused by the airframe. Thousands of mustangs were built during the second world war and just because this one was 80% scale really wouldnt change anything.
rocket
Its unlikely the crash was caused by the airframe. Thousands of mustangs were built during the second world war and just because this one was 80% scale really wouldnt change anything.
rocket
Rocket, it's not being overlooked on an individual basis but because, as Binghi points out, it's the single example of type, it's amateur built and experimental. In the end it comes down to how many lives are at risk.
Contrary to what you seem to believe there is no bottomless bucket of money . Or would you enjoy paying more tax/fees? It costs as much to investigate one crash as another so which gets priority? The one where many lives are at risk.
Contrary to what you seem to believe there is no bottomless bucket of money . Or would you enjoy paying more tax/fees? It costs as much to investigate one crash as another so which gets priority? The one where many lives are at risk.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: ChCh NZ
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its unlikely the crash was caused by the airframe. Thousands of mustangs were built during the second world war and just because this one was 80% scale really wouldnt change anything.
Ummmm....
Experimental, non certified aircraft, with a big 'Experimental' sign displayed prominently somewhere. Whilst I feel for the family, there is a higher amount of risk involved when flying this type of aircraft. You should be aware of this when you fly one/in one.
Rocket, did you know the pilot? I ask as there seems to be quite a bit of emotion behind your posts
j3
Rocket, did you know the pilot? I ask as there seems to be quite a bit of emotion behind your posts
j3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not taking any particular side here but, ATSB made a bug fuss in The Senate about having cash then stating they have no cash. Perhaps they may explain to the Senators next sittings exactly what the position WRT cash is?
Tax increases aside, there seems to be a move of recent to foist these matters onto QLD Police for investigation. I refer Hemple, The Imbil Dragon and now this.
Queenslanders are taxpayers as well, and it's probably OK for them to ask why an aviation investigation body is not capable or willing to do an investigation, (if only for the Coroner), but they are prepared to spend QLD time, effort and money and take the Police away from other meaningful tasks.
Tax increases aside, there seems to be a move of recent to foist these matters onto QLD Police for investigation. I refer Hemple, The Imbil Dragon and now this.
Queenslanders are taxpayers as well, and it's probably OK for them to ask why an aviation investigation body is not capable or willing to do an investigation, (if only for the Coroner), but they are prepared to spend QLD time, effort and money and take the Police away from other meaningful tasks.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: More than 300km from SY, Australia
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QPS
.........and atsb "has" the qualifications in one place that can deal with these matters.
It went on to investigate and assist in the Goulburn Sting fatalities, for which a coroners report is still to issue.
It went on to investigate and assist in the Goulburn Sting fatalities, for which a coroners report is still to issue.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: australia
Age: 66
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Automotive engines haven't the best reliability in aircraft use and neither have gearboxes/reduction drives on engines with less than 9 cylinders been all that successful in aircraft. It sounds like this aircraft had both.
Two ag outfits over here each spent a kings ransom developing their own V8 engines (one a big block GM the other Ford) plus gearbox setups to replace the venerable IO720, In the end they gave up."
On the other hand, there's a very successful liquid cooled V8 Pawnee operating as a glider tug in Vic with a belt PSRU, which has been doing fast turnarounds at relatively low running cost for a number of years.
Two ag outfits over here each spent a kings ransom developing their own V8 engines (one a big block GM the other Ford) plus gearbox setups to replace the venerable IO720, In the end they gave up."
On the other hand, there's a very successful liquid cooled V8 Pawnee operating as a glider tug in Vic with a belt PSRU, which has been doing fast turnarounds at relatively low running cost for a number of years.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: location loaction
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
j3 I never knew the pilot but just feel for his kids and wife especially at this time of year. Its stupid to say it shouldnt be investigated just because its an only type. The freakin Titanic was an only build but Ill bet my license people who build ships learnt a lot out of that.
I dont know if its just a string of bad luck but there has been quite a few accidents involving fatalites lately.
Rocket
I dont know if its just a string of bad luck but there has been quite a few accidents involving fatalites lately.
Rocket